Snoshoo IF-1 Racer Construction / Technology

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by Victor Bravo, Jan 22, 2018.

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  1. Jan 24, 2018 #21

    mcrae0104

    mcrae0104

    mcrae0104

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  2. Jan 24, 2018 #22

    BoKu

    BoKu

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    Sign up for our next Akaflieg, and you'll come away with the knowledge and experience to make that carbon wing for only a bit more than the wood wing costs.

    --Bob K.
     
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  3. Jan 24, 2018 #23

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    Tantrum... pay attention to what Bob K says above. If there is any way that you can attend one of his programs, IMHO do it. I know it's halfway around the world... but if you can go you will probably be very happy you did. If you can attend one of Jim Marske's workshops in Ohio, you will also learn a tremendous amount about how best to use composite materials.

    Add my agreement to the comments against the "expanding" foam. This stuff is legendary in the Vari-Eze and Long-EZ world, and legendary in a bad way. That sh** never stops moving around, growing, shrinking, sagging, etc. It also adds very little or no strength. You can make rigid blue foam false ribs and sand them to the main rib contour easily with a long sanding board. The rigid blue foam is far more stable and inert than the expandable foam. It will also achieve a stronger bond with the skins than the expandable stuff. BTW the expandable foam is also referred to as "A-B foam" and "Pour in Place".

    Have you already been in touch with the IF-1 technical crew? They will be very helpful to you if you get them involved before you show up to race. There is a huge amount of knowledge and experience there. If you have any trouble whatsoever getting in touch with them, let me know.

    This is not exactly recent news or top secret knowledge, but as you design and build your wing, make sure you are optimizing it for the turns a bit more than the straightaways. You may want to talk to the Boeing guys and any other aerodynamicists about taking a second look at your wing's twist distribution and the local AoA's at various spanwise locations while the airplane is in a turn. You need to get some brain cells focused on induced drag and optimum lift distributoin in the turns. Most all of the previous race aircraft designers did not do that IMHO. People like Al Bowers are looking at that stuff for gliders, but the principles are probably very relevant here too.
     
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  4. Jan 24, 2018 #24

    rv6ejguy

    rv6ejguy

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    I've said this before, Ray Cote was faster than 95% of the current F1 field at Reno back in the mid '70s- probably on less hp than the current front runners. I believe Jon Sharp still holds the race lap record- set 22 years ago. There has been little to no progress in that time, despite how much more we know today about engines and aero. Ray and Jon were legendary.

    I don't think a carbon wing fits within the current plans for Tantrum- it's already started. People like Bob can do it in their sleep but few people can and probably should not be trying out newly acquired skills on an F1 wing. Perhaps after the aircraft is flying and more is learned, a new carbon wing could be built down the road.
     
  5. Jan 24, 2018 #25

    BJC

    BJC

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    BoKu:

    How about an update on the carbon wings for RV’s?


    BJC
     
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  6. Jan 24, 2018 #26

    Tantrum1

    Tantrum1

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    Victor Bravo,
    I have been in touch with the Tech committee I’ve also done PRS last year, the guys on the tech committee are also following my build, they keep joking around about scam my engine from me. They’re a great group of guys.

    As RV6 stated,
    there is a good chance that a retro fit to a carbon wing may be a possibility further done the road. But I’m quite comfortable with running a wood wing for the first couple years, then maybe my budget will be there for a carbon wing, or my skill set will be more developed to build my own. Also Ross I haven’t forgotten about you, and am still interested in the ignition system once I’m a bit further along in the build!

    If anyone is interested in more on what we’re doing please like and follow our Facebook page. Temper Tantrum Racing.


    Thanks again, I do read all the comments, and do consider and take into account most of the suggestions that are posted here.
    Thanks
    Mark
     
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  7. Jan 24, 2018 #27

    rv6ejguy

    rv6ejguy

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    We have the new CPI2 ignition coming out in a couple months hopefully so either that or the original CPI could fit your needs. We have some extra good deals for Reno racers who want to run SDS stuff.
     
  8. Jan 24, 2018 #28

    Tantrum1

    Tantrum1

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    Ross, I really like the idea of running Canadian content on the aircraft. So I will definitely keep an eye out for it, and hope to incorporate it into my build! Thanks for the heads up!
     
  9. Jan 24, 2018 #29

    Mcmark

    Mcmark

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    This is not exactly recent news or top secret knowledge, but as you design and build your wing, make sure you are optimizing it for the turns a bit more than the straightaways. You may want to talk to the Boeing guys and any other aerodynamicists about taking a second look at your wing's twist distribution and the local AoA's at various spanwise locations while the airplane is in a turn. You need to get some brain cells focused on induced drag and optimum lift distributoin in the turns. Most all of the previous race aircraft designers did not do that IMHO. People like Al Bowers are looking at that stuff for gliders, but the principles are probably very relevant here too.[/QUOTE]

    Tantrum,
    Being in the Mid Atlantic, I can appreciate the work and expense involved in making the trek to the races.
    Just backing up what Bill said optimizing for the turns, I could run the straight aways with the faster guys but entered #1 with Chris Schaich maybe 3 lengths back and by the time I made #2 he was on the backstretch.
    I've enjoyed watching the progress and find that airplane to be beautiful.
    Best,
    Mark
     
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  10. Jan 24, 2018 #30

    BoKu

    BoKu

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    We're doing an Akaflieg mini-session Friday through Sunday this week, and we'll get the RV wings out of the molds for a look-see then. Last session Steve bonded the 10 kg left wing frame (spars and ribs) into the lower skin; the next thing is to add corner tapes and start sealing up the tanks.
     
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  11. Jan 27, 2018 #31

    MX304

    MX304

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    One of the biggest differences between wood and carbon wings is the weight. Some of the new carbon wings in IF1 are getting very near to the sub 100lb range. If you build the fuselage skins and tail out of carbon, you might get close to the minimum weight required by the rules with a wood wing. If I remember correctly, Holbrook Maslen's "Judy" raced with a wood SnoShoo wing and it was competitive.
     

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