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homebuilderfan

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Hello to everyone. This is the first thread I open in this forum and I hope this will be helpfull.
Sorry for my language, but I am not anglosaxon.
Well, and now my problem: I made a search, but the most interesting thread about small engines dates about 10 years ago. There were lot of questions, hypothesis, advices but no certainties.
I am looking for something that is really hard to find today, I know it: a small engine in the range of the 45/60 hp, 4 stroke (I will tell the reason), reliable enough to be put on the nose of a plane (ok, I understand the "reliable enough" can have lot of meanings), not weighing a lot and not needing to be cut in pieces, sawn or glued to make it run properly behind a propeller; not out of production or really hard to have.

I am looking for direct experience (the web is already full of "I saw a guy..." "Try that engine xyz, should be..." "I heard that ..." etc...)
I know I am looking for something that is almost disappeared today; engines manufacturers look at other ranges of power; it is obvious, since today even the very light aircrafts are equipped from 80 hp to up( Rotax 912 first of all).

Sure I have missed something, I will however wait for a reply, hoping to solve this issue.
Thank you in advance.
Fabri
 
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Dana

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You're right, it's not a common size nowadays and choices are limited. You can get a 45HP half VW (sawn in half, yes, but available as a turnkey package from Hummel Engines), various versions of Full VW, some turnkey (Aerovee, Revmaster), some you have to build, the new O-100 (a 2 cylinder using O-200 jugs).

Dana
 

Lemans

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Mar 23, 2008
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Riemst Belgium
Hi Fabri,

I was thinking exactly the same a few years ago.
Went to the moon and back to find the engine I was looking for. At the end, one conclusion – the engine did not exist.
The only solution was building one according my personal specs.

You might enjoy reading my builders log.

https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/member-project-logs/11077-designing-building-my-4-stroke-direct-drive-engine-replace-277-477-rotax.html

I welcome with great pleasure any comment and/or questions as soon as it's more than just:
'nobodywas able to build such an engine so it's impossible'

Lemans
 

TFF

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I would think backwards and come up with a weight you need, and then see if you can fill the spot. If not you will have to change your design. VW and 1/2 VW are going to be the standard. A-65, new 0-100 may or may not fit you needs.
 

Vigilant1

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I am looking for something that is really hard to find today, I know it: a small engine in the range of the 45/60 hp, 4 stroke (I will tell the reason), reliable enough to be put on the nose of a plane (ok, I understand the "reliable enough" can have lot of meanings), not weighing a lot and not needing to be cut in pieces, sawn or glued to make it run properly after a propeller; not out of production or really hard to have.
Fabri,
Availability and price may be different for you in Europe than for me in the US, but here the VW engine largely fits the requirements you have set. At the HP you are asking for, an 1835cc VW engine driving a prop on the flywheel end is extremely reliable, can be bought for about $4500 (USD) or built for a bit less than that, and has a good record in aircraft use. It may be heavier than you'd like (as low as 140 lbs total, if you can do without a starter and alternator, maybe 15-20 lbs more with an electrical system). All new components.
 

bmcj

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I'd like to give you a report on the D-Motor, but mine is awaiting installation. Still, it might fill your needs, but is a bit higher on horsepower.
 

MikePousson

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Ontario on the bay
Have you looked at the Polini 2 cycle. It's made n your home country. They sell a water cooled dual spark ignition with electric start and weighs less than 20kg without the radiator and water. They are selling in US and Canada thru different distributors. Italy has its on distribution system. They are big in motorcycle racing in Europe.
THOR 250 DUAL SPARK
 

homebuilderfan

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Happy to see all these replies in one single day.

1)Dana: your examples are a bit too much heavy. I know very well VW reliability but also their weight.
2)MikePousson: I had already seen Valley Engineering twin; it looks a bit "flat". The weight to power ratio is not very exciting, and 32 hp continuous are not a lot (assuming there are really 32 hp...)
3)Lemans: you don't like to hear that is impossible to build this engine: ok, I will say: I am not able to build this engine. Surely a skilled guy can do the task. But not me. Then there would be something else to say about, but this is not the right thread.
4)TFF: you are right, I need the lowest weight possible. When you consider to use a 330 kg. MTOW light airplane, the engine must be the lighter possible. Maybe the Pegasus, when it is in production; we'll see the real weight fully equipped.
5)Vigilant1: yes, you are right,the prices are different. When you have to buy something that is aviation related you often have to buy in the U.S.A. This implies shipping costs and customs fees... And the weight is also a bit more than 140 lbs.
6)bmcj: I have considered the D-motor even if it is not properly cheap. Yes, it is higher on hp; but the claimed weight is very good; the power to weight ratio is exciting (if it is real...)
7)blane.c: I have checked the Verner radial when they were in the 1st configuration; the actual is quite "flat": can't understand why they lowered the power, but the 3 cylinders would be surely enough (if it would deliver more power); yes, I may choose a more powerful engine: but it means more weight...
8)MikePousson: I am not going to look for 2 stroke engine because of these facts: big exaust pipe, more fuel onboard needed. The old Rotax 503 should be the right choice but it is out of production. Simonini builds good engines, but nothing interesting for me.

Anyway still waiting for other ideas. Thank you

Fabri
 

Wayne

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Hi Fabri,
I have not seen mention of this engine yet HKS-700E
HKS did stop making these but several groups in the USA seem to have gotten them to continue. I have never used one of these but by all accounts they are well respected for fuel burn, power, and reasonable weight. They are not cheap, of course.

Wayne
 

blane.c

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Welcome to the club. It seems many of us fall into the anything less than 60 hp is a two stroke and I don't like it category. It seems that for the most part less than 60 hp is intended for ultralight aircraft and liability screams from the void with an ugly head. I have been looking for a solution for many years long before I discovered this forum. Lupi has some good ideas, and After reading Lemans stuff last night he has some good ideas also, no one has a complete answer that I am aware of. Some of the Chinese scooter and motorcycle engines look promising as far as modifying something to work but without knowing how to speak Chinese it is difficult to negotiate and get the quality you are looking for. China makes products for many of the automobile manufacturers that are of high quality but if you want cheap they will do that to most willingly. Dafra Motos - Scooter, Custom, Sport, Street, Ciclomotor e Bicicleta Elétrica Dafra in Brazil has some interesting motorcycle and scooter engines again to be modified for aviation.

It is difficult if you want 4 stroke, I don't think anything is made that fits the requirement at least not to knowledge. I believe you are going to have to make some kind of compromise, for me it is 2 or more smaller engines to offset the reliability and redundancy issues.
 

Himat

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If you search for what is used commercially, aircraft engines at about 40hp are for a large part either two stroke or wankel. Note that commercial light planes that uses engines of about 40hp are mostly UAV's. The trouble is that a lot of these engine manufacturers do not sell to the general public, they obvious find other markets more lucrative. Get to the 60hp class and there is different VW derivates and Rotax from 80hp an up. There are others, but those are few.

330kg mtow sound very much like an European microlight single seat aircraft where the choices of possible engines are limited.
 

Vigilant1

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There are a lot of light, very reliable and available 4 stroke motorcycle engines in the 40-60HP range. The trick would be fitting and testing a PSRU to them. The Rotax gearboxes are well known and available. The low-tech approach is to use the existing primary and sprocket to make a chain drive to a new prop hub. But Fabri is looking for an off-the-shelf answer, and this isn't it.

Fabri, what total weight are you considering "reasonable", and do you have a price limit?
 

homebuilderfan

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1) Wayne: I know HKS. I learned flying on a Bingo! equipped with HKS. I am not crazy about it. I had got a Bingo! powered by a 503 Rotax and it was surely more amazing.
2) blane.c: I feel you are right, but, anyway, I am using this powerful tool (forum) because I believe that talking to people is necessary for learning news and improving knowledge. Maybe there is something I don't know that is going to be revealed by a user...
chinese engine: I am going to use them on a aircraft if you put a Smith&Wesson 38 special again my face; maybe...
3) Himat: you are right, the class is just european ultralight. I discovered only a few days ago that Weslake licensed its engine to Hexatron Engineering: it was just a uav engine, but anyway interesting. Unfortunately expensive and the company never told me a real quote.

still waiting for other ideas.
thank you.

Fabri
 

Himat

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That price say a VW type.
The weight say two stroke or wankel.
Both price and weight, mostly two stokes.
 
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