Shoulder wing unpopularity

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stanislavz

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As stated... Why ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmö_MFI-9
Just an one example, :


Pros - best view - up and below. Strut braced wing is still an option. Easier to get into ? forward swept wing - auto spin recovery ?

Minuses - forward swept wing - some possible aeroelasticy problems ? Just a step to normal low wing ? Not enough "piperish" look ?


Another ones : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottier_P.130_Coccinelle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_SF-2A_Cygnet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARV_Super2
 

mullacharjak

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Super Mashak or the Mashak(meaning Proficient/Expert) with smaller engine still manufactured by AMF Pakistan at kamra.dont know about the price but certainly wouldnt be cheap.A very nice aircraft.cf63e918b3511405948edb777fddb8aa.jpg
Should fly very well with the new 4.0L V6 auto engines avaiable these days!
 
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mullacharjak

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SAAB doesnt make this aircraft any more.AMF has sole manufacturing capability to build this aircraft and they build it from scratch.Its a very simple Boxy aircraft.Perfect for homebuilding!

I have flown in a Mashak and a cessna 150/172. View from the Mashak is simply superb.No comparison to the cessna.
But Cessna 150 is my favourite because I soloed in one!
 
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gtae07

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On a (conventional tractor-engine non-canard, at least) light airplane your occupants tend to sit close to the center of gravity (i.e. right around the wing). Typically you get around it by having a carrythrough structure under or between the occupants (for low wing) or having struts and compression members above the occupants (Cessna, Cub, etc). With a shoulder wing, you can't put those things through your occupants (they'd find it a mite uncomfortable) so you have to go around them, and that means either a swept-forward wing with the spar behind the pilot (tricky, adds weight), a spar ahead of the pilot (limits view), or a really massive carrythrough structure going around the whole fuselage (heavy and probably limits view). And then your rear-seaters (if any) have a really poor view regardless.

TL;DR: It's neat, but presents packaging and structural issues.
 

mullacharjak

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What was wrong with the P30/130.A structural issue? The only shoulder wing with wood structure.It can be built as nose wheel also.Would work very well with a vw 1835.
 

cheapracer

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Typically you get around it by having a carrythrough structure under or between the occupants (for low wing)
Yup, I considered mid wings but couldn't get my head around the spar options.

Then there's the stall factor with forward swept wings that pushes the GoG aft, nobody wants that.
 

TFF

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If you a “keep Austin weird” type, it’s perfect. If view is prime, it’s good.
When it comes to style, it is too Piper. If I’m going to be odd, I’m going all the way. It’s too tame with styling. It may fly great, I’m sure it does, but it does not look natural. Lots of this is psychological of norms but a J3 looks like it’s supposed to, a Bonanza does, P-51 does, 707.
It’s just in the middle of not being sexy and not being weird. Very few will fall in love.
 

stanislavz

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Thanks for reply. if you are building safety cage - you can mount wing on it too. More austin style



And from geometry point - forward swept wing..
 

ToddK

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As far as home building goes, I suspect that it has more to do with the excruciating geodetic wing construction required by the only plans built shoulder wing: the Cygnet, an otherwise exquisite design.
 

Victor Bravo

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There is one other concern that I didn't see mentioned. Ingress and egress gets far more complicated, and greater sacrifices have to be made. The single biggest thing I didn't like about the Cygnet was the door/windscreen entry/exit. Far less convenient or ocmfortabble than high wing or low wing.

To be fair, one flight in one Cygnet is all I have for shoulder wing powerplanes. All of my other flights in shoulder wing aircraft offered much easier ingress/egress (gliders) which is not at all relevant to this discussion.
 

Victor Bravo

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It took me a little more trepidation than it looks like in that video, but again I only had one flight and never "got used to" gettingi n and out of it.

Than again i can easily get in and out of the Taylorcraft and many people say that's a PITA. I have a lot of experience getting in and out of the T-craft so it seems simple to me, and somebody else might look at it and say it's for contortionists only.

So my comment may not have been fair overall..
 

cheapracer

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I think you are messing with nose-up with rear-swept wing.
When a plane stalls, you want the wing roots to stall first, the wing tips to stall last, the tips on a forward swept wing are further forward (duh), hence your CoL moves further foward in relation to the CoG after the roots stall.

That's the same reason my (straight) wings have 3/8" of twist in them, so the tips stall last.

There are other issues, but that was the prime reason that scared me off doing one.
 

Winginitt

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Thanks for reply. if you are building safety cage - you can mount wing on it too. More austin style



And from geometry point - forward swept wing..
Well, its kinda unique. The more you look at it the more things there are to like about it, but it looks kinda complicated to build something like that. Is that stabilator balance wt adjustable? I like the spoilers but wonder about the placement of the flaperons.Top of the instrument panel looks a little high for good forward visibility. What are the flying specs and weight ? How wide are the wings and how much area ? Whats the stall speed ?
 
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