Sharing builders Experiences

Discussion in 'Workshop Tips and Secrets / Tools' started by don january, Dec 2, 2018.

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  1. Dec 2, 2018 #1

    don january

    don january

    don january

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    I wanted to open a thread about not discussing what's needed to be done in a build or where to start but more of the glitches that come along. I'm at this time focused on the fuel tank and dash and always thought a removable dash is the ticket. I look left and right and see HZ stab and elevator off to my right and tank and engine to my left. Then a bit further to the south I see rudder pedals and aileron cables and glad to see the north is getting done. Many members look at pictures and think about whats to come and try and draw up something that will turn the tables. Now to the thread. There is never a glitch if you can foresee what is next on a build and that to me is the trick. I've come to see that the first thing off should not interfere with the next thing off and down the line. Each area is mounted then removable and a builder can only hope the selection is few. I hope all can jump in and give an area that glitched their build at that step.
     
  2. Dec 2, 2018 #2

    Pops

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    I built a separate nose fuel tank with an sheet aluminum cover and a removable dash on my KR-2 that I built. Saved a lot of problems later in the build. If you don't plan ahead, easy to paint yourself in a corner.
     
  3. Dec 3, 2018 #3

    don january

    don january

    don january

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    We need to talk about the builders struggles and what may be holding them back from the next tac or glue joint. I see so many hold the paper in there hand and walk away with it never to be built. I think one of the biggest problems is a place to build and the right tool's. I'd like to hear actual events that a builder ran into that would have developed better going a different route.
     
  4. Dec 3, 2018 #4

    TFF

    TFF

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    Without being a professional, you have to understand your parts might not be perfect, along with holding standards high at the same time. Holding on to perfection for perfection sake is really a bad way to gauge yourself. The guys that are really good have done it 20 times before. Their first ones looked just like yours. You do still have to be able to say quality is not there, try again. I'm use to solving problems as they come. Some just take longer. It is hard to see ahead and that is where building from plans have to be with a grain of salt. Whatever order you do probably messes up the next guy. Thinking three steps ahead on each sub section and any time they crosses needs to be thought out well. I like reading plans; it's fun for me. Lots of people really struggle with them. Now if you intend to modify something, the chain reaction can last until the last screw is put in. Actually building a homebuilt is really just solving problems. You just get a free airplane when you are done.
     
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  5. Dec 3, 2018 #5

    Pops

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    Very well said as always. I also enjoy reading plans. Started building model airplanes from plans at 8 years old. Also enjoy problem solving, so building an airplane is very enjoyable to me. Like you said, have fun and end up with an airplane when done.
     
  6. Dec 3, 2018 #6

    Little Scrapper

    Little Scrapper

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    Accurately bending thick flat plate like .090" in to fittings.

    I've always been a metal fabricator but this is an issue for me. It may be I'm a perfectionist but currently this is a sore spot for me.

    An example would be a landing gear fitting that needs to be accurate. Two bends on a small part that's thick is not an easy task.

    Beating it sucks. Most brakes can't handle it.
     
  7. Dec 3, 2018 #7

    Little Scrapper

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    Here's an example. I'm not a artist. This is just a imaginary part for nothing but shows what I mean.
    IMG_20181202_222008636.jpg

    Lots of really cool airplanes have parts like this and lots of people struggle with it. Biplanes always seem to have fittings like this. Pitts, Acro Sport etc.

    To really put a nice and accurate bend when making this is not easy. Making it with .032" is no problem, making it with .090" 4130cm and holding within a tight tolerance is a really challenge.
     
  8. Dec 3, 2018 #8

    TFF

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    It would be lucky if you could cut it out of a bit of square tube. Without a great scrap pile or willing to buy lots of 1 ft pieces, its hard to do. Not cheap. Without an iron worker or other industry brake, .090 might as well be .250.
     
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  9. Dec 3, 2018 #9

    Little Scrapper

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    Here's a Hatz fitting I dug out. Lots of guys struggle with parts like this.
    IMG_20181202_231924425.jpg
     
  10. Dec 3, 2018 #10

    BBerson

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    Harbor Freight press brake/shear combo might press that part. I haven't tried it on steel that thick but have bent brackets of .080" x3" 6061t-6.
     
  11. Dec 3, 2018 #11

    Little Scrapper

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    Press brakes are great for putting a 90° once on a thick part, it's the second bend that's difficult.
     
  12. Dec 3, 2018 #12

    don january

    don january

    don january

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    I have a friend in Florida that started building a Taylor-mono a few months ago and we keep in touch via the web with pictures and problem solving. He bought a wrecked Mini-max with the hopes of using the gear and instruments and so on for the mono build and two areas that has him losing sleep is the firewall and curved sided fuselage. He asked me my thoughts on just building the Fus. sides flat and mounting a sheet of 3/4" ply for the firewall. My advice to him was it's a experimental aircraft and he can do what ever he feels safe with and I also said that if you land at a airshow and park his plane along other Taylor monos Will it stand up to that claim of being one through out? Another area is the wooden bows on the rudder and HZ stab and elevator. The prints call for 1/8"x 1/2" x 4" lengths of ash to be laminated into the bow shape and Lou is not happy with his finished product because of the sanding of the glue is leaving a wash board effect. I took 1/4" dowels and soaked over night in water and jigged them wet and let dry over night and notched the rib tips and spar tips to allow half a circle landing for gluing. Lou and I also discovered that My set of plans must be older then his mainly because we found the seat back ply on his is tilted back about 5 degrees and mine is 90 Degrees to longerons. Very odd that this is the only area as of yet we have found different in the plans. That one little area caused some grief in are over land communication about the build.
     
  13. Dec 3, 2018 #13

    Pops

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    You are correct. This is why I built a 12" very, very heavy and strong Brake. We were building 4 Bearhawks with all of the fuselages and wing fittings, we need a better way to do the job. I also built a 30" brake to fold the .035 4130 3/8"x 7/8" "C" channel tail surface ribs.
     
  14. Dec 3, 2018 #14

    Little Scrapper

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    I built a short brake many years ago but it's only good for about .040" . I decided this morning that that's my next project, a 8" wide brake made with thick steel.
     
  15. Dec 3, 2018 #15

    Toobuilder

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    For more than one of those, I'd be tempted to do a quick die stamp weldment and use my shop press to stamp them out
     
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  16. Dec 3, 2018 #16

    TFF

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    In New Zealand someone built a really nice Sopwith Snipe at home. He machined some wonderful tooling to bend the fuselage brackets. The fuselage is held together with drag anti drag wires on these brackets. I believe most brackets have to accept 5 turnbuckles each and there is a bunch of them; not including other brackets. It was some heavy duty stuff machined out of 1"-2" plates. put in 500 ton press, and perfect. He took to a night school machine shop class, and he had help coming up with how to do it with instructors and other students, and did not have to own the big tools. The nice part was he was not in a hurry. Had a plane to fly, so he had time to do everything in its own time to complete.
     
  17. Dec 3, 2018 #17

    stuart fields

    stuart fields

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    Back in my Scorpion helicopter days, I had to fabricate a similar bracket from 0.125 4130 steel. I made up a 12" brake from 1/4" thick steel angle and was able to do the job. Super precision wasn't needed though. I still have that brake.
     
  18. Dec 3, 2018 #18

    Pops

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    This is one of the Bearhawk wing kits (Mine) that we did. All there except for the spar webs , fuel tanks and wing skins. Lots of fittings to bend in 4 Bearhawks. We also bought plans and built the 8' brake to fold the spar webs. I did all of the hand forming of the alum ribs.
    Picture of bending 8' Bearhawk spar webs with our homemade 8' brake.
    Don't be afraid to make the tools that you need.
     

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  19. Dec 3, 2018 #19

    Little Scrapper

    Little Scrapper

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    Aluminum is rarely an issue, thick steel is. I'm working on a stout little metal brake for thick steel do you have any photos of that one? That would be a big help.
     
  20. Dec 3, 2018 #20

    Pops

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    I don't have a picture and Dallas has it about 40 miles south south of me in his workshop using it at this time making a couple set of Bearhawk Patrol Landing gears and attach bracketts, rudder pedal assembly, control stick assembly, etc, for a couple builders on the west coast. He has a hanger next door and he is here 2 days a week and we work on airplanes projects. I'll see if he can email me a picture.
     
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