Scrappy’s Landing Gear Wings - Yay or Nay?

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Hephaestus

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Willing to bet his attitude is very different in the cockpit. Attitude at the work station is different.

I know a lot of these guys - Mike's been too successful to possibly be allover the place like this in his other roles - thus this is more likely the result of letting that out at an appropriate time/place which for him clearly is in the workshop.

I prefer the Mike types where they've got a productive outlet vs the ones who go drinking to excess and being a jackass every night. My favorite heavy lift crane operator is like this - you'd think military trained at work, catch him after hours in his garage - the guy is a scatterbrained 12 project at once vw type 3 nut who never needs to check a manual for torques because he memorized them decades ago.
 

NOLA

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I love Mike’s childlike enthusiasm, it’s infectious. He’s a big part of why I’m on this forum.
Most of the people I train Jiujitsu with are like this. Playful, lighthearted, enthusiastic people by day, absolute laser focused killers on the mat. So you can wear both hats.

As far as the landing gear wings (lings?) He usually has a deep and well thought out explanation for everything in his build so the wing-legs will probably be no exception.
As far as I know, he’s only eluded to a bigger wing. He hasn’t detailed info on airfoil shape, flaps, slats, dihedral, washout, etc. It’s going to be interesting to see the continuity between the two parts.
 

trimtab

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I've met him a few times, enough to know a bit of how he works. He's the real deal, and yes, he does have some help, but not what you'd think. He has created an environment for his own needs like few have had the ability to do.

I was never a fan of the mission or the product of the Draco, even though that was what I saw the most of.

In this case, it's pretty obvious what he is doing with the 'fairings', and it will absolutely work for the intended purpose. It's been done before on the Wren 460 et al.

F=1/2AρClV^2.
 

sming

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Willing to bet his attitude is very different in the cockpit.
You mean, like when loosing the engine in imc in his racer?
Posted by mark but i think it's mike.
Personally i like his videos and enthousiasm. I'm quite "young" (almost 40 ) and when i talk to people about building airplanes, well, i learned to just keep it to myself, and its quite lonely. Seeing and somehow sharing that passion with someone on the otherside of the earth helps not feeling completely alone in this madness.
This forum helps too :)
 
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I love his enthusiasm! It makes me want to get started building. His videos are what has rekindled my interest in the hobby and brought me back here.

As for the gear wings, if they're draggy so what? It's a 500 hp cub it's not going to be particularly fast so a little drag isn't going to hurt it. He has also eluded to a method of locking the legs in a partial stroke position and said in the video that king custom made the shocks for him. This may be how he rectifies the negative dihedral.
 

Hephaestus

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He has also eluded to a method of locking the legs in a partial stroke position and said in the video that king custom made the shocks for him. This may be how he rectifies the negative dihedral.
I'm wondering if there's some form of pressure dump (CO2/nitrogen charge?) Squat for loading /unloading and let them raise to the upper stops at cruise speeds - mini biplane wings?
 

daveklingler

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Pops, I'm just going to make the observation that allowing one's enthusiasm and good spirits to show is not remotely the same as an inability to control one's emotions when it's necessary.

If one is attempting to inspire enthusiasm in others for general aviation (he has stated that several times as his goal in making the videos in the first place), Mike's approach works extremely well. I can't even count the number of times he says, "Back to work!" during his videos, nor can I count the number of days he's put in over 18 hours to push past some goal.

He's obviously not suffering from any sort of lack of mental discipline. He and his twin brother have built several successful companies and participated in several forms of racing for virtually their entire lives. He's won a lot of competitions, and he's set a few records.

I've been pretty impressed with his modeling, machining and fabrication skills, which show a lifetime of heavy practice. Sitting down to model something over and over again in Solidworks shows a rare degree of mental discipline. He's also demonstrated the ability to spend many hours patiently fabricating and then destructively testing things on which his life depends.

It's even more impressive when several weeks' worth of fabricated parts snap together without any play. And by the way, he's quick to give credit who those who help him, which in my book is another sign of mental security.

I'd go so far as to recommend that you go back and watch the very first Scrappy video, the one he does with his brother Mark to compare and contrast their two very different sets of goals. You might find the change of context also changes your viewpoint. There's no doubt in my mind that you're missing out. I think of myself as a decent fabricator, and I've learned a lot.
 
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PagoBay

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But the truth is I think they come from different parts of the brain and emotions don’t seem to interfere with the thinking part of the brain.
Sorry -- but Pops is correct. Study up on your neuroscience. Nobody can solve problems or respond to a crisis with genuine clarity if they are clouded by emotional overload. IMSAFE is a basic tenet of ADM. Study up on how instruction fails when stress is imposed on the student in FAA Fundamental of Instructing.

While you are correct that different parts of the brain are indeed working for emotions versus logical reasoning. But the brain center controlling emotion is tied more closely to the nervous system and if strongly engaged prevents the logical neo-cortex from functioning. Forbes Magazine has a nice summary here: Hijack! How Your Brain Blocks Performance
 
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jsharp

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Pago Bay, With respect, the Forbes article you reference is fine if I am a corporate director or HR manager looking to build a team of like minded corporate robots. That's just about all the article is worth and has little value in Pops apparent (and I apologize Pops if I am making an incorrect assumption) general irritation of the personality displayed by Mike Patey on his Youtube channel. Some people just rub other people the wrong way. Although 97% of the population do use common areas of the brain for primary functionality, making a statement that generalizes all, and insinuates by implied reference that the gentleman we are referring to "brain center controlling emotion is tied more closely to the nervous system and if strongly engaged prevents the logical neo-cortex from functioning" apparently is affected by your diagnosis of emotional overload. How in the world are we to judge if his performance in front of the camera represents emotional overload. Some that watch his Youtube channel and are passionately rubbed the wrong way, may actually be the ones suddenly faced with emotional overload and thus their negative reaction to his videos (we each are entitled to like and dislike people or personalities). But this in and of itself does not mean that any party or opinion is wrong or somehow out of kilter with neuroscience. This is just people being people, and thank god that we live in a country where we can make our own decisions and decide what we want to watch or not.
I will say that the aviation community, especially the experimental aviation community is quite small, and is not heading in the direction that many of us had hoped for. In saying that, Mr. Patey has a Youtube following of 156,000 subscribers and growing. In this large number of subscribers, I believe are many that want to be involved in, or considering experimental aviation, or aviation in general. Perhaps many of the next generation of aircraft home-builders and aviators are watching his videos. He must be doing many things right in the eyes of those looking for good examples of aircraft fabrication techniques. I have not once seen him do anything unethical or out of line with any commercial fabrication or design process.
Many on the forum are engineers or scientists with extensive backgrounds (or our companies call us former engineers or scientist),l well respected in their respective fields, some of which are aviation design and manufacturing. They/we got there by being analytical, learned, and detail oriented ad nauseum. This is not a bad thing and actually absolutely necessary. But we do sometimes tend to try and analyze everything around us including people, just as we would analyze a failed design or part. It often is in our nature to do this and actually our somewhat extreme view on exactness, process, and procedure, is what make us so focused and valuable in our traditional roles.
I believe we are all entitled to like, dislike, tolerate (like marriage sometimes) or be intolerant, it is all up to us. The reasons we make these individual decisions are often not subject to debate, nor should they. I am sure I have not stated a single thing in this post that will change Pops mind about Mr. Patey, nor should I expect that, Pops has earned his stripes and deserves to be respected for his individual decision, just as you do yours. I do think however that as a forum, we need to stick to doing what we can to help this and the next generation to become fine aircraft designers and builders. And I of course am as guilty as any of not staying focused on the goals of the forum. With that, I will drift back into the shadows of the forum and quietly continue to learn from the many great contributors and talent that this forum has managed to assemble... With respect to all.... Joe
 

Pilot-34

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Sorry -- but Pops is correct. Study up on your neuroscience. Nobody can solve problems or respond to a crisis with genuine clarity if they are clouded by emotional overload. IMSAFE is a basic tenet of ADM. Study up on how instruction fails when stress is imposed on the student in FAA Fundamental of Instructing.

While you are correct that different parts of the brain are indeed working for emotions versus logical reasoning. But the brain center controlling emotion is tied more closely to the nervous system and if strongly engaged prevents the logical neo-cortex from functioning. Forbes Magazine has a nice summary here: Hijack! How Your Brain Blocks Performance



Based on what is going on in my head, I would say my 50 years of meditation practice has generated great results. My mileage has varied.
Lol I can’t disagree with you . Note though that you are arguing a different question than we have been discussing.

Pops brought up displaying emotion. We have been discussing emotion. But you are talking about emotional OVERLOAD.
Obviously someone overloaded is hindered in other tasks.
But go back to the original vidio we are talking about and the Mile Patey is Called out as enthusiastic , not overloaded , just a flavor added to his personality.

In the end I agree with you that when someone is overwhelmed by emotions it can have a detrimental effect on choices.
The man that is giddy wont see any negative consequences.but Mike hardly seems giddy.
 
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JohnB

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In this case, it's pretty obvious what he is doing with the 'fairings', and it will absolutely work for the intended purpose. It's been done before on the Wren 460 et al.


I will bet a dollar to a donut his "surprise announcement" on the struts will be that during cruise he will use the custom hydralic struts to bring the "wings" up to level or slight positive dihedral .
 

Pops

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I have a brother that is a very, very successful salesman. Very intelligent, and can present himself to his maximum benefit at all times. At times, if the need arises, he can be a pitchman just like Mike in his videos. Yes, Mike does do good work in a lot of ways and his work can be interesting for people that is interested in building airplanes. But, everything to the side, Mike is also playing the role of a pitchman in presenting his videos. That technique works on a lot of people, its the reason its used. You feel free to watch and enjoy, I'll count the flowers on the wallpaper :)
 

BJC

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Although 97% of the population do use common areas of the brain for primary functionality, making a statement that generalizes all, and insinuates by implied reference that the gentleman we are referring to "brain center controlling emotion is tied more closely to the nervous system and if strongly engaged prevents the logical neo-cortex from functioning" apparently is affected by your diagnosis of emotional overload.
Love it.


BJC
 
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I have a brother that is a very, very successful salesman. Very intelligent, and can present himself to his maximum benefit at all times. At times, if the need arises, he can be a pitchman just like Mike in his videos. Yes, Mike does do good work in a lot of ways and his work can be interesting for people that is interested in building airplanes. But, everything to the side, Mike is also playing the role of a pitchman in presenting his videos. That technique works on a lot of people, its the reason its used. You feel free to watch and enjoy, I'll count the flowers on the wallpaper :)
What exactly is the harm in selling general aviation and experimental aviation? If you look at the hobby as a whole it seems like it would benefit from a few more good salesman.
 

WarpedWing

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To me, Mike's enthusiasm is infectious as well as entertaining. When I find myself loosing focus and desire to continue working on my project, I pull up the latest video for inspiration. If enthusiasm and excitement for working on things you love and are passionate about turns someone off, so be it. I'll turn to the inspirational any day before I would turn to the negative. Just my nature.

After viewing the video above, I would say in the face of adversity, Mike Patey is calm, cool and professional. I'd fly with him any time. I have known many who showed a calm, cool exterior but panic in serious situations. Case in point, local flyer, doing touch and go's lost his engine in the pattern. You would have thought someone had cut off his Cajones. He ended up in the trees on down wind. His radio calls made it seem like he was dealing with a nest of hornets. Thankfully, he survived without a scratch. But when he spoke of the ordeal he told the story like he was super pilot. None of us who were there that day would have guessed this guy would be the type to panic. You just "never" know how a person will react to any given situation. Poo Pooing someone just because you don't like the personality type just baffles me. Maybe its just me, but I always give people the benefit of doubt. I have many friends that at first glance seemed like complete fools only to discover a great individual.

I wait in anticipation for Mike's explanation on why he chose to do this on Scrappy. His engineering mind, to me, is fascinating.
 

Marc W

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Pops, and I for that matter, come from a different culture. It is a culture that faded out with urbanization and the wealth that has grown with industrialization. Your great grandfather's and earlier generations probably were a lot like Pops.

It probably has a lot to do with growing up poor in rural areas and working with your hands. I am not a hillbilly but my father was a card carrying hillwilliam from east Tennessee. I grew up on a poor dirt farm. I know exactly where Pops is coming from. You all might learn something from Pops.
 

TFF

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Since social media has been covered and now being retweeted, does anyone think the gear is going to steer the plane if crabbing or slipping? The gap between the top wing arm and the lower flat arm is pretty tight too. No major lift interference from the lower but might be a bunch of drag off center. Easily $10,000 gear with tires.
 
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