Scrappy’s Landing Gear Wings - Yay or Nay?

[ScaleBirdsScott]

The way Patey carries himself in the videos, its grown on me. Early on I felt it was a bit too put-on. But I think it is authentic, if elevated and edited to make the videos more entertaining.

Seeing the work and thought he puts in, and the crazy amount of it on display, it's clear that he's got a lot of serious thinking going on with skills to back it up; whether its pragmatically applied is up to debate, but he is doing what he likes and there's definitely something there to watch.

But mainly that energy and performance is what works for the camera. His style of video is not showing the quiet, reflective moments, the hours of thought and effort and so-on. This isn't the show where the subject takes off their hat, scratches their head, and makes a big to do over some bolt not fitting in order to drive up the drama. And it's not a boring video where a seemingly dispassionate guy stoically rattles off some data while not betraying the slightest emotional weakness. That all can be interesting to watch, but it has to be authentic.

His videos are more just straight "get it done" energy drink of a production. Lots of good motivation there, maybe not too much substance, and some hate the stuff.

I've been following a lot of YouTube makers. Most don't have nearly the energy that Patey does. But the ones I enjoy tend to get closer to that exuberance than those who don't. Usually. There are some exceptions. And certainly some go way too far.

Either way.

On topic, I liked the use of printed templates to figure out where to cut the wing piece. I wonder what method he used to project the pattern as it hits a curved surface and then to a flat sheet that could then wrap the part. I've only been able to get that through trial and error.

 

[Badland Aircraft]

I don't find much time to watch all his long videos. But when I do squeeze a little time in I am thoroughly impressed and motivated. Would love to have him swing by our shop one day to pick his brain.

 

[PagoBay]

Why all the personal stuff and ad hominem critique?? Criticizing is a big thing for some. But it seems like going after the man and his manner is not the purpose of this forum and is certainly not the actual topic found in the subject line. Thread drift big time.

 

[Geraldc]

I watch his videos because there are so many tips and tricks.
His one off composite work is truly interesting especially for home builders who do not want to make and sell 100 parts.
I like the green peelply he uses. The stuff I use is nowhere near as good.

 

[Pops]

I didn't say out of control. Some people will watch his videos and some will not, I am one of the will not's.

 

[Will Aldridge]

You know one more point re control of emotions, I'd say it demonstrates a pretty extreme level of discipline and self control and laser focus to achieve so much, so quickly with such a high standard of craftsmanship. And if he can enjoy himself as much as he seems to while doing it, well I wish I knew how to do that

 

[BJC]

I haven't been following his build, but I did watch the video in this thread, and enjoyed it.

What do you think of the short wings he built onto his landing gear?

I, like several posters have already posted, will be interested to see the overall effect of the wings, and would love to see tuff test video of the flow, especially between the flat plate and the bottom of the wings.

This is pretty much my opinion of all of youtube..... and I am young by this forums 'standards'.

Under 65 narfi? (You don't need to brag.)

He has an immense amount of talent, enthusiasm and skill

Agree, and it is infectious.

There are people that I can't stand and there's no logical reason I can give.

Have we met?

I liked the use of printed templates to figure out where to cut the wing piece. I wonder what method he used to project the pattern as it hits a curved surface and then to a flat sheet that could then wrap the part.

For me, extreme STOL aircraft are interesting to watch for a takeoff or two, but other than that, I'm not interested. I am, however, very interested in how Mike goes about his work.

I really would like to spend a week or two in his shop, watching how he goes about doing the work. Also, I would already have signed up for one of BoKu's akaflieg sessions if I thought that I could keep up.


BJC

 

[donjohnston]

I do have a logical reason. All of my life I was taught to be in control of my emotions at all times. When you are emotional you are not thinking, just reacting.

Spock! Is that you?

 

[jsharp]

I wish I still had the enthusiasm and drive shown by Mr. Patey as I had more than thirty years ago when I completed my private ticket, let alone the incredible enthusiasm I had for aviation in the early 70's when I was 14. If you take the time to watch his videos, he donates RC planes to kids, advocates for young people getting into aviation, as well as other philanthropic activities. He is certainly wired up differently and his identical twin brother seems a bit more quiet. He has proven his competence as an engineer and aviator, as well as having an extensive history of heavy modifications to existing designs. I believe he knows what he wants and has what it takes to design and build what he can get (sometimes we don't always get all we want) but that is what spirit of Experimental Aircraft is all about. You take your best shot on your initial design, hopefully survive the initial test flights, learn, and modify or scrap as necessary.
So many design ideas that he is implementing on this plane such as the oversize horizontal stabilizer and rudder, seem a bit much but he explained his experience with STOL planes and believes the over-sized tail feathers will provide him with more maneuverability over a broader air speed. I believe as a true engineer, and designer, he thinks through his design challenges very thoroughly. He also takes advantage of the aircraft design tools available in his CAD software and has referenced this analysis several times in his videos.
All design is subject to being competently built according to the design, ultimately vetted by static load tests, functional tests, and of course flight testing. I too am interested in his landing gear design and if it will perform as anticipated. If you look at historical designs from early in aviation there were many attempts to place lifting sections of wing structures across fixed landing gear. Perhaps he took his inspiration from early fixed wing designs and trying to roll his own version.. In any case, my hats off to Mr. Patey....

Joe

 

[Pops]

Spock! Is that you?

No. But I have learned what it takes to survive. Lots of my buddies didn't.

 

[HHCIB]

On topic, I liked the use of printed templates to figure out where to cut the wing piece. I wonder what method he used to project the pattern as it hits a curved surface and then to a flat sheet that could then wrap the part. I've only been able to get that through trial and error.

It's probably done via SolidWorks, which is what Mike said he did all his modeling in. Sketches on flat planes can be projected onto curved surfaces or faces. And the curved surfaces (or do a zero offset surface on a solid face) can be flattened via a built in surface feature called "Surface Flatten". You can then make a drawing of that surface, or do whatever else with it. There may be other ways of doing the same thing, for example the sheet metal tools in SolidWorks are also good at flattening things, but that's the idea.

 

[PagoBay]

No. But I have learned what it takes to survive. Lots of my buddies didn't.

Since this thread drift is now over to life lessons.... What I have learned in 70 years is that to survive is not the goal. Everyone survives to their last day in one way or the other. What really matters is what you give to others along the way and the quality of the experience others have in being around you.

 

[Pops]

At times it can be very easy to survive and at times it can be very hard to survive. I have lost count of the times that I came very close to dying . I have had my heart stopped. Have been were I didn't know if I could stand the next heartbeat. Surviving at times can be very, very , very hard. I have seen many of my buddies die. Have had my life saved many times.

 

[Hot Wings]

What really matters is what you give to others along the way and the quality of the experience others have in being around you.

That is what separates humans and animals.

 

[Pilot-34]

I do have a logical reason. All of my life I was taught to be in control of my emotions at all times. When you are emotional you are not thinking, just reacting.
My training started at 8 years old in boxing and street fighting and the use of weapons. If you can get your opponent emotional, you have won the fight. They will start making mistakes because of not thinking and you can easily take advantage of those mistakes. I know, I grew up far different than most of you.
If you were in an aircraft with a serious emergency would you want the pilot that has been trained to be in control of his emotions or one that is not. I know which one I would pick.

I’m sorry but I don’t agree with you.
I think that’s something that weak people say when they can’t Think and do while having emotions.
If you wouldn’t fly with someone that can’t fly because they’re happy or sad ,enthusiastic or excited about all that leaves is the robots.
I don’t really wanna fly with a robot.

I think people use emotions as an excuse, like “I missed that landing because I was sad my dog died”
But the truth is I think they come from different parts of the brain and emotions don’t seem to interfere with the thinking part of the brain.

Think about it some amazing music is played by people that get into the emotion of the music deeply, while crying their eyes out they are still able to think and do well enough to be virtuosos.

 

[Marc W]

I don't watch videos but reading you alls take on life is entertaining!

It's a generational thing Pops. These youngsters don't have a clue.

 

[Pops]

I’m sorry but I don’t agree with you.
I think that’s something that weak people say when they can’t Think and do while having emotions.
If you wouldn’t fly with someone that can’t fly because they’re happy or sad ,enthusiastic or excited about all that leaves is the robots.
I don’t really wanna fly with a robot.

I think people use emotions as an excuse, like “I missed that landing because I was sad my dog died”
But the truth is I think they come from different parts of the brain and emotions don’t seem to interfere with the thinking part of the brain.

Think about it some amazing music is played by people that get into the emotion of the music deeply, while crying their eyes out they are still able to think and do well enough to be virtuosos.

When I was young working as a high rigger setting building steel and building stacks up to 1668' and free climbing TV and radio towers. Every move is planned in advance and it takes 100% concentration and 100% in control of your emotions. I have sent people home because they had an argument with their wifes before coming to work and was still emotional about it. They will make a mistake and get killed and kill other people. Seen it happen to many times and to many died.
You should try to get someone back down on the ground when they froze at 900'.

 

[Pilot-34]

Why does it take 100% control of your emotions?
I can’t see how the two things would be related and I don’t think you’re going to be able to prove otherwise with stories based on your own preconceptions.
I would postulate that dealing with strong emotions will help you focus. My reasoning is that by Occupying random thoughts in other parts of your brain it helps you focus.

I suspect somewhere there is a really good study on the subject ,
I just don’t know where it’s at

 

[Marc W]

I would postulate that you should listen to the voice of experience. Think of it as meditation. There aren't random thoughts in the rest of your brain. There is only right here, right now.

 

[Pilot-34]

I don’t know what’s going on in your head but there’s usually about 1000 things going on in mine at one time.
Your mileage may vary .