Scale ME-262

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vhhjr

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The seat angle in the 55% is 35 deg, way too flat. That's what it took to get me into the 55% mock-up. Mostly to get my shoulders under the canopy sill. I am 5"10 and weigh about 200 lbs. I measured a Varieze, a single place glider and a German plane called a Speed Canard and they were all around 45 deg. Having made a several hour flight in the Speed Canard I found it quite comfortable although a slightly more upright angle, such as it my Sonex and Onex, would be better.
 

Urquiola

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I'm not sure Me-262 is the best airplane for being replicated. A very beautiful machine, great triangular shaped fuselage section, but twin engined, this adds difficulties and costs, slow in turning. For having fun, any single jet Messerchmitt, Horten, Heinkel, Junkers project looks better, many German aeromodellers have built flying machines with these projects; they have yearly meetings such as 'Days of speed and thunder', for pulse jets; Intermodellbau Dortmund and others. Info in YouTube. Enjoy it! Gesund +
 

vhhjr

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If you want to stick with the German WWII theme the He-162 and the ME-163 could be single engine candidates.

I have looked at them both and the one with the best history would be the ME-163 Komet. Leave off the C-Stoff rocket engine and use the engine that the SubSonex uses. There was a full size glider replica built in Europe some years ago that you can see fly on YouTube.

The flight reports that I have for the HE-162 Salamander say that it had marginal flight characteristics somewhat due to the lack of thrust. This could be corrected by scaling up a model had better flight manners and with a better propulsion choice. The other problem is with scaling for a couple reasons. The wing isn't very large and a 66% replica would have only 44% of the full size wing area so you would have to make the wing larger than scale and build light. The nose wheel housing would also be in the way in a reduced scale replica.
 

nicknack

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If you want to stick with the German WWII theme the He-162 and the ME-163 could be single engine candidates.

I have looked at them both and the one with the best history would be the ME-163 Komet. Leave off the C-Stoff rocket engine and use the engine that the SubSonex uses. There was a full size glider replica built in Europe some years ago that you can see fly on YouTube.

The flight reports that I have for the HE-162 Salamander say that it had marginal flight characteristics somewhat due to the lack of thrust. This could be corrected by scaling up a model had better flight manners and with a better propulsion choice. The other problem is with scaling for a couple reasons. The wing isn't very large and a 66% replica would have only 44% of the full size wing area so you would have to make the wing larger than scale and build light. The nose wheel housing would also be in the way in a reduced scale replica.
Reputedly the somers-Kendall sk1 had good flying characteristics. It looks quite a bit like a 3/4 sized HE162. Has the benefit of being 2 placed, mostly wood and fiberglass.
upload_2020-1-30_0-10-44.jpeg
 

nicknack

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courtesy of the minijets webpage


Caractéristiques
Constructeur Somers-Kendal SK-1
Concepteur Hugh M. Kendall
Type Racer biplace léger à réaction

1er vol 8 octobre 1955
Nb. construits 1
Equipage 2
Motorisation
Moteur Turbomeca Palas
Nombre 1
Type Turboréacteur Simple flux
Poussée unitaire 160 kg 353 lbs
Dimensions
Envergure 6,93 m 22.73 ft
Longueur 6,35 m 20.83 ft
Hauteur 1,62 m 5.32 ft
Surface portante 6,25 m² 67.27 ft²
Capacité en carburant 228 l 60.3 US Gal.
Facteur de charge +/- 6 g
Masses
Fuselage 217 Kg 478 lb
Moteur et accessoires 90 Kg 198 lb
Equipements et huile 35 Kg 77 lb
Poids à vide 343 Kg 756 lb
Performances
Décollage - 15m à 750kg 685 m 2,247 ft
Atterrissage - 15m à 650kg 595 m 1,952 ft
Vit. maximum S/L 535 Km/h 332 mph
Vit. croisière max 450 km/h 280 mph
Vitesse maximum 645 km/h 401 mph
Taux initial montée 9,4 /min 1850 ft/min
Autonomie à 190 kts 1160 km* 720 miles
* à 20,000 ft et sans réserve
 

vhhjr

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Apparently, the ME-162 had good flying characteristics as shown in this Youtube video:

You just have to stay away from the binary fuel rocket the originals had.

Vince Homer
 

nicknack

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The SubSonex engine, mounted in a 7/8 scale ME-163, with two small flush NACA air inlets under the wing root, could work pretty well if it's built light.
Yes that would be an interesting candidate. Doesn’t have landing gears though
 

nicknack

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Jul 27, 2008
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Slightly different design... How about the Caprioni F5 Trento. According to test pilots it was wonderful to fly. Wooden structure and designed by Stelio Fratti( responsible for SF260 and the F8 falco). Needs an engine equivalent to the new PBS TJ150.
I guess if Prof. Fratti was still alive, someone could convince him to allow a kit version.

https://minijets.org/fr/150-300/turbomeca-palas/caproni-trento-f5

upload_2020-1-31_10-27-3.jpeg

upload_2020-1-31_10-27-38.jpeg
 

vhhjr

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I've been busy with the ducted fan projects and have some data. About ten years ago I built a rolling test, called "The Blue Machine," stand to investigate using a CVT as a engine speed reduction unit to drive a propeller. It worked quite well and that another story. As a result of the ME-262 interest I said I was going to build a large ducted fan. So far the 11 inch diameter fan has been tested using my rolling test stand and I have some data. The fan rotor consists of a purpose built hub that holds 16 Rolls Royce Avon jet engine compressor blades and the angle of attach can be set before a test. The max rpm was limited to the 9 hp engine that drives through a Comet CVT. Depending on the blade angle I was able to get the rotor up to 9000 rpm, but the max thrust of 25 lbs occurred at about 6500 rpm. I have a 35 hp 2si two cycle engine that I will eventually the lawn mower engine with. I should be able to get about 100 lbs of thrust with the additional hp.

The Blue Machine is instrumented for engine and fan rpm, fan thrust and torque and airspeed.
upload_2020-1-31_20-30-36.png

Today I installed a 17 inch diameter fan the has 12 compressor blades from a Russian jet engine. I will run it first with the small engine then install the 2si. I am predicting about 125 lbs of thrust with that unit.

The key to maximizing thrust is high rotor rpm. To get 300 lbs of thrust out of the 17 inch fan would require running it at 19,000 rpm. Unfortunately, the sonic tip speed occurs at about 15,000 rpm and practically speaking 900 feet per second is pushing it structurally. That limits the unit to about 13,000 rpm and 150 lbs of thrust. The only way too get more thrust is to use more blades for more blade area or make a larger diameter fan.

I will report on the 17 inch fan testing later this week. Some photos of the equipment have been attached.
 

Attachments

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cluttonfred

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I have no particular interest in flying a replica Axis fighter but the discussion of the Nakajima Kikka earlier in this thread does inspire some jet dreaming. This pic of an original minus the engines at the NASM shows that it's an elegantly simple design. Something similar with straight tapered wings, light construction, and pair of big RC model jet engines would be great fun. Putting the jets on little pylons on either side of the rear fuselage would allow shorter landing gear and give some inherent protection against foreign objects thrown up by the wheels.

 
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vhhjr

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71
Ran the 17 inch ducted fan today and definitely ran out of power, I couldn't get the fan rpm over 3400 where I was getting about 20 lbs of thrust. Time to install the 35 hp engine. Hwere's a photo of yours truly, the Blue Machine and the 17 inch fan.
 

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Erik Snyman

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Oct 9, 2019
Messages
46
I've been busy with the ducted fan projects and have some data. About ten years ago I built a rolling test, called "The Blue Machine," stand to investigate using a CVT as a engine speed reduction unit to drive a propeller. It worked quite well and that another story. As a result of the ME-262 interest I said I was going to build a large ducted fan. So far the 11 inch diameter fan has been tested using my rolling test stand and I have some data. The fan rotor consists of a purpose built hub that holds 16 Rolls Royce Avon jet engine compressor blades and the angle of attach can be set before a test. The max rpm was limited to the 9 hp engine that drives through a Comet CVT. Depending on the blade angle I was able to get the rotor up to 9000 rpm, but the max thrust of 25 lbs occurred at about 6500 rpm. I have a 35 hp 2si two cycle engine that I will eventually the lawn mower engine with. I should be able to get about 100 lbs of thrust with the additional hp.

The Blue Machine is instrumented for engine and fan rpm, fan thrust and torque and airspeed.
View attachment 92804

Today I installed a 17 inch diameter fan the has 12 compressor blades from a Russian jet engine. I will run it first with the small engine then install the 2si. I am predicting about 125 lbs of thrust with that unit.

The key to maximizing thrust is high rotor rpm. To get 300 lbs of thrust out of the 17 inch fan would require running it at 19,000 rpm. Unfortunately, the sonic tip speed occurs at about 15,000 rpm and practically speaking 900 feet per second is pushing it structurally. That limits the unit to about 13,000 rpm and 150 lbs of thrust. The only way too get more thrust is to use more blades for more blade area or make a larger diameter fan.

I will report on the 17 inch fan testing later this week. Some photos of the equipment have been attached.
 

pictsidhe

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Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
7,368
Location
North Carolina
Ran the 17 inch ducted fan today and definitely ran out of power, I couldn't get the fan rpm over 3400 where I was getting about 20 lbs of thrust. Time to install the 35 hp engine. Hwere's a photo of yours truly, the Blue Machine and the 17 inch fan.
Compressor blades are unsuitable for low solidity fans.
 
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