Scale ME-262

Discussion in 'Warbirds / Warbird Replicas' started by Saville, Oct 5, 2019.

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  1. Oct 5, 2019 #21

    Toobuilder

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    The scale factor in the cockpit area is one of the biggest issues. Compounding that, the German cockpits of that era were VERY tight even full scale. You might have to use a semi supine seating with much of your body forward like a modern sailplane with only your head in the canopy area. Engine nacelles are not going to scale well either, but for the opposite reason. These modern model based engines are going to be swimming in the scale nacelle OML. Long tailpipe too.

    But for certain, original drawings are going to be practically worthless for structural detail. Cardinal measurements are going to be the only use - it's an entirely new structure beyond that. You'd be better off starting with something like an RV for a sanity check on the structure.

    ...and to pile on a prior post, I can get you into an L-39 TODAY for less money than this project will cost.

    IMG_20190915_143008651.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
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  2. Oct 5, 2019 #22

    pictsidhe

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    You would find making an extremely accurate replica extremely difficult. the few % error from measuring some of the best available drawings will be minor compared to the shape compromises you'll need to make for it to work as sub scale homebuilt. For most of mine, I'm measuring the plans, then scaling up by 16. My 1:24 plans are 1:16 at my 2/3 scale. My Hurricane is currently 70% scale at the cockpit, with a 65% scale nose. That is necessary so I can see where I'm going... Seating will be glider-esque supine, with my feet inside the original engine... You'll need to draw an outline and then see how you make things work.
    Gentle curves are easy in aluminium, compound curves are wheer it gets interesting. You may well find that flat wrapping in short sections gets you close to true shape. I have an idea for compound wrapping aluminium, but haven't tried it yet.
     
  3. Oct 5, 2019 #23

    mm4440

    mm4440

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    Not negative at all. It will be an educational project. If you really want to fly a jet you can do like Paul Dye and build a kit or buy a used jet trainer.
     
  4. Oct 5, 2019 #24

    mm4440

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  5. Oct 5, 2019 #25

    Saville

    Saville

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    Do you seriouslyy imagine that I was unaware that if all I wanted to do was fly a jet, I could built a SubSonex or buy a jet trainer?

    What I really want to attempt is to see how a design of a scale ME-262 using the PBS TJ-100 works out. That was the point of my original post.

    Your response was extremely negative. You were saying:

    "Forget your idea and just buy an L-39. It'll be cheaper and faster."
     
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  6. Oct 5, 2019 #26

    Saville

    Saville

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    Maybe.

    But that's entirely irrelevant to the Original Post.
     
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  7. Oct 6, 2019 #27

    Mad MAC

    Mad MAC

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    Cheapest way to get the nose shape in sheet metal maybe to find an external fuel tank off a fast jet / C130 and reshape it out of round.
     
  8. Oct 6, 2019 #28

    mm4440

    mm4440

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  9. Oct 6, 2019 #29

    mm4440

    mm4440

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    I suggested an L-29. My first aviation magazine article was "Pony Soldiers" in 1986 on Mustang replicas. I also did an article on homebuilt jets, both with surplus real turbojets and ducted fans and the physics has not changed but the costs have certainly gone up or the dollar has shrunk or both. My particular obsession is a scaled Airacobra. It has morphed into something more useful, a poor person's Stemme. A fighter replica is a challenging project and you will learn a lot. Some projects produce successfully flying aircraft, others waste years and thousands of dollars and a few end up killing their pilots. Not negative, just realistic.
     
  10. Oct 6, 2019 #30

    Vigilant1

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    Is safe single engine flight a requirement for this design? If so, you can save some time by determining the limits that constraint will impose (e.g with the available thrust and the scale wing you are envisioning, along with a rough estimate of the drag (incl drag due to countering asymmetric thrust), you can figure out the max weight you can accommodate.). This may tell you pretty quickly whether the idea is worth pursuing.
    My own >opinion< is that I would not find it desirable to have a plane with two experimental engines if it can't fly safely on one.
     
  11. Oct 6, 2019 #31

    Speedboat100

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    Was Me-262 safe to fly on one engine in the first place ?
     
  12. Oct 6, 2019 #32

    Speedboat100

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  13. Oct 6, 2019 #33

    Victor Bravo

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    If someone built a 2/3 scale Me-262, and I got to fly it... I know exactly what I would say:
    "It flew as though elves were pushing!"
     
  14. Oct 6, 2019 #34

    nicknack

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    I was wondering if the nakajima kikka which is approximately 75% scale of the ME262 can be another point of reference?
    Specs are:
    • Length: 8.125 m (26 ft 8 in)
    • Wingspan: 10 m (32 ft 10 in)
    • Height: 2.95 m (9 ft 8 in)
    • Wing area: 13.2 m2 (142 sq ft)
    • Empty weight: 2,300 kg (5,071 lb)
    • Gross weight: 3,500 kg (7,716 lb)
    • Max takeoff weight: 4,080 kg (8,995 lb)
    • Fuel capacity = 200 us gal
    • Engines 2 × Ishikawajima Ne-20 axial-flow turbojet engines, 4.66 kN (1,047 lbf) thrust each
    The newer PBS TJ150 puts out 337lb thrust..
    Now if the Price Induction DGEN380 or DGEN390 ever becomes available at a reasonable price, it will be the best choice since it is an efficient turbofan with ~ 550 to 750lb thrust

    Personally I think a light weight composite ME163 airframe will probably work very well with 2 PBS TJ100 engines. The ME163 is after all a glider with a Lift/Drag ratio of ~ 25
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
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  15. Oct 6, 2019 #35

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

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    What would you say if it was ½ scale ?

    http://www.ultraligero.net/aviones/modelos/ar_5.htm
     
  16. Oct 6, 2019 #36

    vhhjr

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    You might consider the two place version. That would give you a much larger canopy.

    For "Walter Mitty" planning get a set of giant scale RC plans for the ME-262. I wrote an article about the process a few years ago of Experimenter Magazine. Truth in advertising- The closest I ever got to actually doing it was building a non-flying 75% P-39 fuselage.

    Vince Homer
     

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  17. Oct 6, 2019 #37

    Victor Bravo

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  18. Oct 6, 2019 #38

    mm4440

    mm4440

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  19. Oct 6, 2019 #39

    mm4440

    mm4440

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    Hi Vince, thanks for posting your article. My collection of 215 V-8s (now gone) was started with a 39 replica in mind.
     
  20. Oct 6, 2019 #40

    mm4440

    mm4440

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    This is the replica to build:
    [​IMG]
    I would look at P&W Canada PW600 series turbofans.
    [​IMG]
     
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