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Scale ME-262

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Urquiola

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If you want to stick with the German WWII theme the He-162 and the ME-163 could be single engine candidates.

I have looked at them both and the one with the best history would be the ME-163 Komet. Leave off the C-Stoff rocket engine and use the engine that the SubSonex uses. There was a full size glider replica built in Europe some years ago that you can see fly on YouTube.

The flight reports that I have for the HE-162 Salamander say that it had marginal flight characteristics somewhat due to the lack of thrust. This could be corrected by scaling up a model had better flight manners and with a better propulsion choice. The other problem is with scaling for a couple reasons. The wing isn't very large and a 66% replica would have only 44% of the full size wing area so you would have to make the wing larger than scale and build light. The nose wheel housing would also be in the way in a reduced scale replica.
There's a YouTube Video featuring a former He-162 pilot, indicating machine was agile in flight, but difficult to handle in airstrip, having lost more pilots during takeoff and landing than in combat, also a USSR video with negative comments about flight features. There were plans for a turbine version of Me-163, but many projects existed in last days of allied attacks to Germany, making a choice is hard, all look cute. 'Al Bentley drawings' has plans of several of it, not building plans, but exploded, X-ray views. Blessings +
 
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Urquiola

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Even the Finns dropped the swastika after WWII even though their use of it had absolutely nothing to do with Naziism. Some people in Asia would view the rising sun in the same way.
Yeah! Svastika, from Sanskrit: 'sv'= 'well; 'asti'= 'being', and the German suffix -kheit='condition of', has its oldest roots in Siberian Shamanism, was a Solar Symbol, no idea why nsdap choose it. Board is from Jean Riviere: 'Talismans, Amulets, Pantacles', other is a 1989 Calendar. '51'= Sí, Spanish yes; '52'= 'Omega', the end.
The 'Hexagram', wrongly called 'Star of David' is not hebrew at all, as a matter of fact, it forwards to Renfan, Quevvam, Egyptian idols, equal to Saturn, Chronos, Moloch.Svastikas y svastikas orientales -Jean Riviere.jpgJain -India 1989.jpg
Blessings +
 
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Urquiola

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Aug 23, 2013
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courtesy of the minijets webpage


Caractéristiques
Constructeur Somers-Kendal SK-1
Concepteur Hugh M. Kendall
Type Racer biplace léger à réaction

1er vol 8 octobre 1955
Nb. construits 1
Equipage 2
Motorisation
Moteur Turbomeca Palas
Nombre 1
Type Turboréacteur Simple flux
Poussée unitaire 160 kg 353 lbs
Dimensions
Envergure 6,93 m 22.73 ft
Longueur 6,35 m 20.83 ft
Hauteur 1,62 m 5.32 ft
Surface portante 6,25 m² 67.27 ft²
Capacité en carburant 228 l 60.3 US Gal.
Facteur de charge +/- 6 g
Masses
Fuselage 217 Kg 478 lb
Moteur et accessoires 90 Kg 198 lb
Equipements et huile 35 Kg 77 lb
Poids à vide 343 Kg 756 lb
Performances
Décollage - 15m à 750kg 685 m 2,247 ft
Atterrissage - 15m à 650kg 595 m 1,952 ft
Vit. maximum S/L 535 Km/h 332 mph
Vit. croisière max 450 km/h 280 mph
Vitesse maximum 645 km/h 401 mph
Taux initial montée 9,4 /min 1850 ft/min
Autonomie à 190 kts 1160 km* 720 miles
* à 20,000 ft et sans réserve
A french homebuilder made an small turbine, installed it on a pod above fuselage in a glider, they were banned from flying, with allegations of 'safety concerns'; of course a turbine adds self-takeoff to a glider, but I failed in making any concept about its dangers, if it fails, the airplane simply glides.
Airbus is stoned of the 'grandeur' of francs, a german tribe, and if allowed, they'll look for a monopoly position in aeromodel market. Unbearable! Gesund +
 
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Urquiola

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Aug 23, 2013
Messages
132
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Madrid, Spain
Yes that would be an interesting candidate. Doesn’t have landing gears though
There is NASA/ NACA experimental research, 'Cranfield repository', free and open access, indicating the 'NACA' air intakes, BD-5 style, are worse than the 'open mouth' type, as in Vought 'Crusader'. Blessings+
 

Urquiola

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Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
132
Location
Madrid, Spain
Even the Finns dropped the swastika after WWII even though their use of it had absolutely nothing to do with Naziism. Some people in Asia would view the rising sun in the same way.
'Rising Sun', Dawn, in the anciet times was devoted to 'that Greek call 'Apollyon' and Jews 'Abbadon the exterminator'. Beware of the dog! Salut +
Reputedly the somers-Kendall sk1 had good flying characteristics. It looks quite a bit like a 3/4 sized HE162. Has the benefit of being 2 placed, mostly wood and fiberglass.
View attachment 92636
The 'Butterfly' type of tail unit is reported having structural problems, some Beechcraft Bonanza crashed because of it, they say. Blessings +
Attached is image of SK-1 after two commands in 'MicrosoftSommers-Kendall SK-1.jpeg Office Picture Manager'. Fouga 'Magister' had same look. Gesund +
 
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opcod

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Aug 28, 2010
Messages
79
Location
Canada
asw27 with 2 jet engine fly just perfectly. No problem in that.. it's just perhaps the regulation and paperwork to do. But you can fly as you want for sure. Just the low effective time before overhaul the engine are very low.
 

Riggerrob

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Location
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The 'Butterfly' type of tail unit is reported having structural problems, some Beechcraft Bonanza crashed because of it, they say. Blessings +
V-tails do not have inherent structural problems.
Bonanza structural problems were more complex. First, Bonanza is the most widely-produced V-tail, so more Bonanzas have crashed than any other V-tail.
Secondly, Bonanzas grew considerably in weight, horsepower and top speed over the years. This forced Beechcraft to eventually (1970s) standardize Bonanza production with a conventional tail from the Debonaire. Debonaires' conventional tails look similar to the tail on Baron twins which were also derived from the original Bonanza airframe.
Beechcraft did publish a service bulletin to reinforce Bonanza V-tails.
However, the primary reason for most Bonanza structural failures was poor pilot technique. Too many private pilots "got in over their heads" losing control while flying in clouds. The fell out the bottom of clouds in high-speed spiral-dives and pulled the tails off their Bonanzas. These arrogant pilots were the primary reason that Bonanzas earned a reputation as "V-tailed doctor killers."

Few other V-tails have been built in such large numbers as Bonanzas and few have suffered as many structural failures.
 

vhhjr

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Jun 29, 2003
Messages
132
We are going to make a diorama in our local EAA Chapter 292 using my three mock-up aircraft. The youth Build group will be painting a mural and the aircraft, P-39, B-25 and the ME-262 will be hung from the ceiling. I added stub wings and a nose on the 262 to complete it. Photo Attached. It's a representation of the factory prototype of the two place B model.

Vince Homer
 

Attachments

Yellowhammer

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Born In Alabama, reside: Louisiana (unfortunately)
We are going to make a diorama in our local EAA Chapter 292 using my three mock-up aircraft. The youth Build group will be painting a mural and the aircraft, P-39, B-25 and the ME-262 will be hung from the ceiling. I added stub wings and a nose on the 262 to complete it. Photo Attached. It's a representation of the factory prototype of the two place B model.

Vince Homer


Oooooh! I like it, I like it !!!
 

Yellowhammer

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Born In Alabama, reside: Louisiana (unfortunately)
I don't believe stifling of historical fact is a good idea. Several years ago while visiting a Natural History Museum, one of the first things I noticed when looking upon some pottery made by Native Americans that lived in the State of Alabama hundreds of years ago was a swastika that was painted on the side.

Seeing it caused me to do some research. From what I gathered it is an Ancient symbol for the Greater Spirit or Creator.

All too often we see things from history get taken down or removed because it is offensive to some. I am a strong believer in not making the mistakes of the past. If something such as the swastika or a monument of a confederate soldier are made to disappear, then these things will be forgotten and history has proven time and time again that it does repeat itself.

Only the informed and well educated citizen can recognize patterns in behavior for what they are truly meant to accomplish. If we erase those indicators we are setting ourselves up for a repeating situation.

Yellowhammer
 

Yellowhammer

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Feb 21, 2020
Messages
394
Location
Born In Alabama, reside: Louisiana (unfortunately)
Yeah! Svastika, from Sanskrit: 'sv'= 'well; 'asti'= 'being', and the German suffix -kheit='condition of', has its oldest roots in Siberian Shamanism, was a Solar Symbol, no idea why nsdap choose it. Board is from Jean Riviere: 'Talismans, Amulets, Pantacles', other is a 1989 Calendar. '51'= Sí, Spanish yes; '52'= 'Omega', the end.
The 'Hexagram', wrongly called 'Star of David' is not hebrew at all, as a matter of fact, it forwards to Renfan, Quevvam, Egyptian idols, equal to Saturn, Chronos, Moloch.View attachment 104081View attachment 104080
Blessings +

I thought the Star of David was in the shape of a Pentagram. (?)
 

BJC

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If you take that pentagram, connect the extreme points smoothly with a curve, then judiciously apply conformal mapping, you get back to the subject of aerodynamics, which is a legitimate topic here at HBA.


BJC
 

Riggerrob

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Canada
Dear Yellowhammer,
History may not repeat itself, but it definitely rhymes. If we forget about some of the atrocities committed by our ancestors, we are doomed to repeat their mistakes.
I disagree with the current fad to tear down statues of Confederate soldiers or slave owners. Those statues remind us of the mistakes made by our fore-fathers.
 

Urquiola

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Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
132
Location
Madrid, Spain
I thought the Star of David was in the shape of a Pentagram. (?)
No, the wrongly called 'David's star', there is an hebrew site 'Simjat-Torah', 'The joy of law', including an article, in Spanish: '¿Estrella de David? ¡No!, estrella del ídolo egipcio Renfan' (David's star? No!, Star of egyptian idol Renfan); as a matter of fact, Moshes had the neck cut of 500 who went in parade after a flag with this star during Exodus.
Hexagram has 6 spikes, refers to saturn; pentagram, 'pantacle' is a five pointed star, as the stars in the US flag and the Morocco flag, also of many 'socialist countries', as Cuba, it forwards to an element in hellish hierarchy I don't identify with precision; you know, I try not being in the line of John Milton, who pushed divorce laws after years or parliament argumentations, he claimed knowing by their own names over one thousand devils. Extremely dangerous, this type of 'acquaintances'. 'Those who love danger will perish on it'

Back to the Me-262 theme, I'd say the main feature of this flying machine was its wing plan form 'forecasts' that of most airliners of today; about its task as fighter, well, they say it was slow and with little agility in turning, poor maneuverability, and its speed not being fully exploitable, as neither pilots nor aiming devices were adapted to speed, thus, pilots had to slow down when looking at flying fortresses, putting them at reach of bomber's artillery.
In the end, Hitler may have been right in changing it into a bomber, but the airplane industry was wrong in at least not changing into bombers some of it.
Horten Ho-IX/ Gotha Go-229 is a much more interesting airplane, see 'Al Bentley Drawings' site; some are trying to make a flying copy of it, there are a few 1'000 kg thrust turbines in the market, but many books detail the jet prototypes built by German engineers these days, a lot of aircraft to choose, aeromodel clubs in Germany built small copies of it, you can watch in YouTube reports about their meetings, there is one devoted to pulse jets. Blessings +
 
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REVAN

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Dec 6, 2016
Messages
242
Location
Tucson, Arizona USA
IMO: It is counterproductive to take modern engine technology and deliberately mate that to 70 year old aerodynamic technology in the form of a scale Me-262. You will likely end up with a much better aircraft for your efforts if you start with a better airframe concept chosen to meet specific mission requirements that will result in a practical aircraft from someone with an interest in that mission.
 

vhhjr

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Jun 29, 2003
Messages
132
If your mission is to create a reasonable facsimile of a bygone era aircraft that you can fly for the fun of it, it would seem perfectly reasonable to put modern technology in the flight safety related parts of the aircraft. Building a ME-262 with Jumo engines wouldn't be safe nor would trying to use 1940 electronics and to forego modern navigation equipment. If the goal is to recreate a WWII or WWI fighter it has to look like what you're trying to recreate. The internal structure materials and equipment may not be authentic, but why not take advantage of what you can.

If you wanted an ME-262 to fly around to air shows and had the where with all to buy one of the newly built ones would you turn it down because it didn't have 1940's wartime technology engines and electronics it it?

Vince Homer
 
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