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Running a G13BB on a test stand?

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jake2465

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Aug 31, 2017
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Huber Heights, Ohio / USA
You are doing props and PSRU for the G13BB? Cool.

Having the same base engine, rpm range, and flywheel inertia is essential if you are doing resonance checks and durability runs. Induction and ignition only matters in that you need to make at least the same torque over the same rpm range that the flight article will have.

So, are you preparing to build a firewall forward on the G13BB? Are you going to leave us hanging on plans until you have something that begins to pass your tests, or are you going to run you program with us watching?

Bill
Hi Bill, So I am doing this with a G13BB first because it just to happens to be what I have at my disposal. I will go ahead and play around with that and make a gearbox for it. 4140 shafts, nitrided gears, etc.

I will run the program while you guys can watch. I'm quite interested in doing this and something tells me that others are interested in seeing how it turns out. If anything, it will make for a really good college project, successful or not.

I will say that I would ultimately like to apply this to larger displacement V8 engines. Something that can throw enough power to easily qualify an aircraft as high performance. That's years away, but that's where id like to go.

Perhaps the old-timers at my airport will change their minds, too. They are convinced that car engines in planes are a terrible idea all because they heard someone having a PSRU grenade on them. I understand their reservations, but I don't believe it's giving the technology a fair shake.
 

WonderousMountain

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Apr 10, 2010
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2,096
Location
Clatsop, Or
Jake,

It's one of the best car engines to convert.
Not a practice beater. Sips fuel at .25 Bsfc whatever.
Allmost all aluminum, compact & lighter than higher
capacity engines. Raven redrives was under backorder
the whole time. While it's great to have a mule, a lot of
us would appreciate useful experience from the experiment.

This engine a 13BB was part of my sole inheritance,
Lost in a move - well my college mate didn't pay rent...

Anyway, I am saying it's a good and durable platform.
 

Air Trikes

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Dec 21, 2015
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52
Location
Montreal Canada
Air Trikes: Engines and Conversion Kits. Everything you need to get your G13BB alive and flying, from a conversion manual to a running engine with motormount, gearbox, propeller, muffler etc. 25 years of work with this engine, happy customers all around the world. My engine is flying on a 2-place weightshift trike - World Champion for the last 4 years.
 

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Chris Matheny

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Nov 26, 2019
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149
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St. Paris OH
I'm about 15 minutes from Andy Barnhardt Memorial. Did you machine a geared drive setup for the engine? If you look at my thread on here in the Chevy section of the auto conversions, I have made one for a 1.4 Chevy Cruze engine myself. Are you involved with the EAA chapter at the airport? I'd definitely like to help if possible. Edit: I just seen you plan to make a redrive. I already have one almost complete if you feel like stopping and checking it out.
 

jake2465

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Huber Heights, Ohio / USA
I'm about 15 minutes from Andy Barnhardt Memorial. Did you machine a geared drive setup for the engine? If you look at my thread on here in the Chevy section of the auto conversions, I have made one for a 1.4 Chevy Cruze engine myself. Are you involved with the EAA chapter at the airport? I'd definitely like to help if possible. Edit: I just seen you plan to make a redrive. I already have one almost complete if you feel like stopping and checking it out.
I would definitely be interested in seeing what you have accomplished, Chris. No, I have not yet machined a geared drive setup for the engine. I am in the process of tooling up my mill so I can get started on it. I plan to use specialty carbide cutters for the prototyping work and then once a good combination has been achieved, I may switch to a hobber for subsequent gear production.

I have not joined my local EAA chapter. Currently, I just don't think I have enough cool stuff to offer them yet. Perhaps if this all goes well, then I will make an appearance.

I will definitely check out your thread and see what you have done. Also, do you have time this week for me to pay you a visit?
 

aeromomentum

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Stuart, FL USA

wsimpso1

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I have not joined my local EAA chapter. Currently, I just don't think I have enough cool stuff to offer them yet. Perhaps if this all goes well, then I will make an appearance.
I do not know what qualifications you think you need, but every EAA chapter I have visited is really happy with "I like airplanes". I have seen everything from scratch builders to dilettantes and airplane rebuilders to folks who just like being around people. That you are setting up an engine driven test stand and investigating PSRU is something that some will just eat up and ask if they can help to the folks who will try to steer you to a Lycoming. And they might all just come in handy some day. Go visit.

Billski
 

jake2465

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Huber Heights, Ohio / USA
I do not know what qualifications you think you need, but every EAA chapter I have visited is really happy with "I like airplanes". I have seen everything from scratch builders to dilettantes and airplane rebuilders to folks who just like being around people. That you are setting up an engine driven test stand and investigating PSRU is something that some will just eat up and ask if they can help to the folks who will try to steer you to a Lycoming. And they might all just come in handy some day. Go visit.

Billski
So, I know the president of my local EAA chapter and he has asked me whether or not I would like to have the gang stop by my hangar one of these days to check out what I am doing. I wanted to accept and say sure, but there really was not a whole lot to talk about at the time over at the hangar(this was a couple of years ago). I would rather have folks come over when I have something to actually show in development, rather than just talking about it. If they can actually see real development happening, then they know its for real and not just a daydream or whatever. I am not going to waste anyone's time.
 

jake2465

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I should talk about my initial plan on how I am going to kick this thing off.

My mill has an integrated 4th axis (A) that can be used to simultaneously move in conjunction with the X, Y, and Z. I will need that to help me cut my gears. Since I have concerns about warping steel, I have decided to opt for 4140HT and go for gas nitriding to keep the distortion low. I don't have any plans to perform a final grind to the gears. I will mill to the final size and simply get it treated.

Involute cutters in low diametral pitch sizes or high module sizes are not easy to get a hold of or cheap for that matter. I came across a set of high-speed steel cutters that I thought about purchasing to try out. the trouble is that when cutting 4140HT, a form cutter of that size (3.125" dia) would need to turn about 45 RPM so it does not get burnt and lose its edge when working the gear blank. My mill would probably not like turning that slow and maintain enough torque to keep the operation stable. So, I opted for a specialty carbide involute cutter that has two advantages: The diameter is just over an inch which will allow higher RPM, and the cutter is made out of carbide which again allows more RPM. I should be able to cut at about 2000 RPM with that tool. That is within a good range that I can work with.

The beginning stages will be all about setup. little to do with gearboxes.

For testing the cutting operation, the cutter I have will be in 2.25 module (about 11 diametral pitch) with a 20 deg pressure angle. This is pretty standard and I am not really happy with that pressure angle. I believe it needs more. But, that's what the manufacture had off the shelf and I know that I will have a chance to make many more gears in the future. So, for now, my focus is simply to work my setup and see how well I can do. I plan to work out the particulars as I progress.
 
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jake2465

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Something like this is what I plan to start with. The only difference is that the gear will have a different type of center bore/shaft. Also, the face width of the gear will be increased.
 

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wsimpso1

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So, I know the president of my local EAA chapter and he has asked me whether or not I would like to have the gang stop by my hangar one of these days to check out what I am doing. I wanted to accept and say sure, but there really was not a whole lot to talk about at the time over at the hangar(this was a couple of years ago). I would rather have folks come over when I have something to actually show in development, rather than just talking about it. If they can actually see real development happening, then they know its for real and not just a daydream or whatever. I am not going to waste anyone's time.
Well, that is having people come over to oo and ahh. Just hang is allowed and lots of folks do that.
 

Iwerk

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Irricana
I believe that I might have the service manuals,
plus I also have some Raven Redrive conversion manuals.
If the G13 is like the the three cylinder G10 you should be able to just swap a distributor in. If you can get a service manual for the older distributor engine you can copy that as long as the end of the cam is the same.
 

wsimpso1

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That's a tall order 😄. I don't even know how I would go about producing a herringbone gear.
Neither does anyone else. :D Seriously, the only decents ways to make one piece herringbone gears is to either use small diameter cutters and grinding wheels and relieve the teeth close to centerline so they never touch or to roll the teeth. Some of the folks assemble gears in opposition. Always trouble, almost always better overall to just not go there....
 
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