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TFF

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The technical answer to building a perfect Dr1 is "impossible." It is one of one of the most hotly debated aircraft by historians. In WW2 we collaterally bombed the museum that housed the Fokker blueprints and the last remaining Dr1. What there is out there is other Fokker aircraft, and lots of pictures. The head designer Platz recycled lots of dimensions through out the whole line of aircraft; cut up jigs and reuse what he could for the next. There are about 4 good blueprints; two of which are neck in neck to be as close as can be; can't buy those anymore. Then there is two others which are still commercially available; Sands and Redfern. Sands is closer to than the redfern. Redfern was friends with Platz and he Oked them, but no one cared about perfection to ask hard detailed questions. Search the Aerodrome site for replicas; its a rabbit hole of a site; you will be reading for days. http://www.fokkerdr1.com has contact info and general info. Sopwith is almost easy to build because you can buy copies of the original plans or redrawn versions condensed like http://www.replicraft.us.fm
 

Little Scrapper

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The technical answer to building a perfect Dr1 is "impossible." It is one of one of the most hotly debated aircraft by historians. In WW2 we collaterally bombed the museum that housed the Fokker blueprints and the last remaining Dr1. What there is out there is other Fokker aircraft, and lots of pictures. The head designer Platz recycled lots of dimensions through out the whole line of aircraft; cut up jigs and reuse what he could for the next. There are about 4 good blueprints; two of which are neck in neck to be as close as can be; can't buy those anymore. Then there is two others which are still commercially available; Sands and Redfern. Sands is closer to than the redfern. Redfern was friends with Platz and he Oked them, but no one cared about perfection to ask hard detailed questions. Search the Aerodrome site for replicas; its a rabbit hole of a site; you will be reading for days. http://www.fokkerdr1.com has contact info and general info. Sopwith is almost easy to build because you can buy copies of the original plans or redrawn versions condensed like http://www.replicraft.us.fm
What do you know about the Nieuport 17?
 

TFF

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The Nieuport has been made but not "numbers" like Dr1 and Sopwith Camels. Does not have the Red Barron vs Snoopy lore attached. The 17 is probably one of the better fliers for todays pilots. Most of the top fighters have been made; if you are looking for total exclusive. Less than handfuls, though. I know you stated you did not want an all wood project, Nieuports, Spads, Sopwiths, Albatros, and most all WW1 planes are wood held together with metal brackets and wire. Fokker pioneered the steel welded fuselage. Still dated with wires, but welded much like today. One reason Dr1s are popular for building; pretty modern. Many have subbed 4130 in the shape of the wooden fuselages. Much more reasonable for day in and out flying, but they are not precise replicas. Complete a WW1 replica and you are a hero to all who love WW1 planes.
 

Little Scrapper

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The Nieuport has been made but not "numbers" like Dr1 and Sopwith Camels. Does not have the Red Barron vs Snoopy lore attached. The 17 is probably one of the better fliers for todays pilots. Most of the top fighters have been made; if you are looking for total exclusive. Less than handfuls, though. I know you stated you did not want an all wood project, Nieuports, Spads, Sopwiths, Albatros, and most all WW1 planes are wood held together with metal brackets and wire. Fokker pioneered the steel welded fuselage. Still dated with wires, but welded much like today. One reason Dr1s are popular for building; pretty modern. Many have subbed 4130 in the shape of the wooden fuselages. Much more reasonable for day in and out flying, but they are not precise replicas. Complete a WW1 replica and you are a hero to all who love WW1 planes.
Ok. Thanks.

In the world of WW1 replicas which model is considered the Holy Grail to want or build?

I'm not saying I want to build it, just trying to understand it.
 

Turd Ferguson

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Ok. Thanks.

In the world of WW1 replicas which model is considered the Holy Grail to want or build?

I'm not saying I want to build it, just trying to understand it.


No idea but on of the more iconic airplanes is the Fokker Dr.I even thought it's role in the war has less historical importance than other planes.

I could not imagine building an exact replica, the number of man hrs would be staggering which is probably why Walter Redfern chose more modern building techniques for his popular replica.
 

Pops

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There is only one that needs to be built the most bad ass plane ever one of my favorites.
Mine also, Neighbor had a Fairchild (Warner) and a Stearman. I loved both. I got the fly the Stearman some but not the Fairchild, said something wasn't right in the gear and didn't handle right. Sold it.
My Grandson started getting flight instruction in the Stearman at 15 years old.
 

Victor Bravo

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Ok. Thanks.

In the world of WW1 replicas which model is considered the Holy Grail to want or build?

I'm not saying I want to build it, just trying to understand it.
That would be hard to answer, same as asking which WW2 airplane would be the holy grail.

The "best" WW1 aircraft in terms of how highly it was thought of at the time is fairly well agreed to have been the Fokker D.7. There was a specific mention in the Versailles Treaty that demanded all of the D.7's were turned over to the Allies, because it was the aircraft capable of defeating most any other airplane in the air.

One of the "holy grail" contenders would surely be the later models of the Albatros, because of its magnificent monocoque wood fuselage. Doing the wood fuselage on that aircraft would be a pretty impressive achievement... there have been replicas and perhaps a couple of originals still out there. Perhaps the folks at Old Rhinebeck have the information on that one?
 

TFF

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WW1 planes have followings like WW2 ones. Grail is very subjective. Early war or late war? The Dr1 has the Red Barron and that provenance is hard to shake. Stiff upper lip British are going Sopwith. The evolution of Fokker, Sopwith, Spad, Nieuports, Albatros airplanes all are interesting. Just something different would be something Like a Roland, Pfalz, Rumpler; finding information to build one would be a mammoth task. You can find viable commercial plans for Dr1s, DVII, Camels, Pups, Spads, SE5a,and Nieuports. Are you interested in archeology of finding the details or just want something to build? its kind of like if I ask you to tell me my favorite ice cream me not knowing what Ice-cream is. Hardest to build is going to be Albatros, Spad, or SE5a. Simplest will be Sopwith and Nieuports. Fokker are in between. Personally I want one of each and I have commercial plans for a couple of Sopwiths, and plans and other documentation to build a Nieuport 28, Albatros( pretty sought after), and DVII. Some other stuff filed too. I only scratch the surface of what others hold. Much of me having this stuff is for model airplanes where I can build one of each affordably. I personally would love a real Albatros but just too big a project. Sopwith is very doable to me. A Redfern Dr1 would be like building a Skybolt in complexity; an exact Dr1 with all the funky fittings would be like building two Skybolts. Example, the landing gear is not bolted on but have a funky ball and socket fitting. One nice thing about WW1 planes is almost all have thin ply wing ribs; CNC or router table gets a stack of them done without sticks. I always like these Spads, but I don't know who is more brave the pilot or the gunner http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft25465.htm
 

pictsidhe

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I'm not a WWI expert, but I believe that the British used very thin airfoils throughout. That was due to a lack of knowledge of Reynolds number effects. The Germans worked out that thicker airfoils were much better suited and is one reason their aircraft often had an edge.
The Bristol M1C would be an unusual one to build, as a bonus, it may even outfly a D7 There is a single flying replica, so somebody has plans...
 

cluttonfred

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It would be very interesting to see a list of WWI aircraft by number actually produced and/or fielded. I suspect that it would not correspond to a list of the WWI that are the first to come to mind. Two-seat reconnaissance types are probably the most numerous.
 

Wanttaja

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I think a mid-wing Fly Baby wouldn't make a bad replica of a Morane "Bullet":

The bulkheads where the wing spars attach are parallel and run the entire height of the fuselage, so attaching the wings themselves wouldn't be an issue. You'd need a king post for the landing wires, but the flying wires would actually be more effective. Biggest issues would be figuring out how to connect the ailerons (current system is pushrods) and how to actually climb into the thing....

Ron Wanttaja
 
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WBNH

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That Taube replica was reportedly not the best flyer. Dick Starks of the KC Dawn Patrol had a write up about it somewhere I can't find right now. It was donated to a museum for static display.

http://www.combatairmuseum.org/aircraft/taube.html?fbclid=IwAR2sB4eh9Td9vpeNYHeduChT8CMMsN7aKXOid1pCRySYJsQ0MPLDeRnvf8Y


Kits can still be had through Robert Baslee at Airdrome, according to their website. Though Starks' was likely the only one built, and I surmise the replica requires some tweaks. I'll be happy to stand corrected if anyone knows better. I sought out Robert Baslee first thing upon arriving at Oshkosh 2014 and greatly respect his work.
 

Tiger Tim

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Maybe not the holy grail in WWI replicas but I think the one that would turn all the heads would be a multi-engine German bomber. If memory serves, there is only one survivor today out of the thousands of all types produced so it's guaranteed to be something special. Plus, imagine showing up at the Dayton WWI get-together in something like a Gotha G.I, especially unannounced.


That's a mountain of an airplane that I want to fly.
 

cluttonfred

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Maybe not the holy grail in WWI replicas but I think the one that would turn all the heads would be a multi-engine German bomber.
I *love* the idea of a 7/8 scale Imperial German bomber so you can flour bomb the Dawn Patrol guys in their 7/8 scale Nieuports. I'd go with a more conventional Gotha G.V and a pair if 3- or 4-cylinder Suzuki auto conversions instead of the original Mercedes pushers.

800px-Gotha_G.V_right_view.jpg 3view-gotha-bomber.gif gotha_g-5-s.gif

One teeny tiny problem might be the size. The originals had a 23.70 m (77 ft 9 in) span, so at 7/8 scale you'd be at 20.74 m (68' 0") span! Even 3/4 scale puts you at 17.75 m (58' 4") span. Where would you keep it? It's fun to dream....
 

Wanttaja

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I *love* the idea of a 7/8 scale Imperial German bomber so you can flour bomb the Dawn Patrol guys in their 7/8 scale Nieuports.
Actually, I can think of only one existing WWI multi-engine replica: The Vickers Vimy.

And multi-seat replica WWI replicas are thin on the field, as well. Everyone wants to build a fighter. Other than a few Nieuport 10s, the existing replicas were generally done professionally...for movies or for museums.

The problems of WWI replicas snowball when you try to build a bigger airplane. Engines become more difficult to arrange (IIRC, the Vimy had a major engine type swap) and they don't fly any better than their contemporaries...in fact, they're probably quite sluggish and un-fun to fly.

The best-known multi-seat WWI replica isn't a replica at all...nor is it multi-seat. It's the "Boche Baby"; the "replica" of the Junkers CL-1 based on a single-seat Fly Baby.

The gunner is a dummy. The Boche Babies really aren't THAT close to the original Junkers. But the WWI-fighter-replica community NEEDS a bad guy to chase, and the BB does pretty well. The Great War Display Team has a bunch of fighters attack their two Boche Babies during air shows. The BBs have smoke systems, of course, as well as guns fore and aft and dummy Mercedes cylinder heads.

The Boche Babies are so ubiquitous that RC companies are selling "Junkers CL-1" models that are actually the Fly Baby version.

It's actually a pretty good deal for the owner...conventional handling, with traditional Continental engines.

The Boche Babies were even filmed for the "Flyboys" movie, though the footage wasn't used. I'm suspecting the producers didn't like them because they weren't biplanes, and "everyone knows WWI airplanes are biplanes." One of the Fly Baby community wants to do a Boche Baby conversion on a Fly Baby biplane.


Ron Wanttaja
 

addicted2climbing

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I *love* the idea of a 7/8 scale Imperial German bomber so you can flour bomb the Dawn Patrol guys in their 7/8 scale Nieuports. I'd go with a more conventional Gotha G.V and a pair if 3- or 4-cylinder Suzuki auto conversions instead of the original Mercedes pushers.

View attachment 79130 View attachment 79131 View attachment 79132

One teeny tiny problem might be the size. The originals had a 23.70 m (77 ft 9 in) span, so at 7/8 scale you'd be at 20.74 m (68' 0") span! Even 3/4 scale puts you at 17.75 m (58' 4") span. Where would you keep it? It's fun to dream....
You cant mention ridiculous sized bombers from WWI without mentioning the LLya Muromets.

[video=youtube;I-3_cXuiNQM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-3_cXuiNQM[/video]

No nose on this thing so the tail must have been a lifting tail.
 
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