Recurring Costs: What really bites you?

Discussion in 'General Experimental Aviation Questions' started by Topaz, Sep 13, 2016.

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What THREE of these recurring costs really impact your ability to own an airplane?

Poll closed Oct 13, 2016.
  1. Hangar Rent

    32 vote(s)
    72.7%
  2. Annual Inspections

    7 vote(s)
    15.9%
  3. Maintenance of Certified Engines

    14 vote(s)
    31.8%
  4. Cost of Certified Airframe Parts for Repairs/Maintenance

    18 vote(s)
    40.9%
  5. Cost of Aviation Fuel (versus Auto Fuel)

    14 vote(s)
    31.8%
  6. Hull Insurance

    9 vote(s)
    20.5%
  7. Biennial Flight Reviews/Recurring Flight Training

    2 vote(s)
    4.5%
  8. Hangar Rent

    32 vote(s)
    72.7%
  9. Annual Inspections

    7 vote(s)
    15.9%
  10. Maintenance of Certified Engines

    14 vote(s)
    31.8%
  11. Cost of Certified Airframe Parts for Repairs/Maintenance

    18 vote(s)
    40.9%
  12. Cost of Aviation Fuel (versus Auto Fuel)

    14 vote(s)
    31.8%
  13. Hull Insurance

    9 vote(s)
    20.5%
  14. Biennial Flight Reviews/Recurring Flight Training

    2 vote(s)
    4.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Sep 17, 2016 #81

    Vigilant1

    Vigilant1

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    Even at 20 years amortization a builder might be able to do okay in some markets >if< these hangars could be built in a cost-effective way. But in most cases they can't. The airport (FAA? State aviation authority?) will require 8000 PSI concrete 10" thick and a rebar schedule sufficient to support a Saturn V, every scrap of labor will be union and the contractors approved by the county (cha-Ching!), the plans and work will need to be inspected at every step by the county engineer (who probably has zero experience in building airport structures, so he'll need to get a nod from a hired consultant, etc).
    I wonder if it would be easier to get a "through the gate" setup with the airport: Buy a few acres abutting the airport, build a good gate with the same type of access control used by the airport, and build the hangars on private land. It would still be a >giant< headache, but once the trail had been blazed and there was a standard package to use, and some (undetermined method I can't imagine) way to show the airport managers and authorities that doing this is good for them, then maybe it would work. But I believe the trend on these "through the fence" agreements was turning the other way, at least as-of a few years ago.
     
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  2. Sep 17, 2016 #82

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

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    Same rules in a lot of places. Who knows what will happen in 20 yrs? It may be possible to get an extension on the lease and for all you know, you may want out of the lease in 20 yrs. For that matter, go to an airport authority meeting and petition for a longer lease period if it is that important. Just remember, even with a 40 yr lease there will be language in the terms that will allow them to throw you out prior to the end if the lease if necessary. They might have to buy you out but you'll be on the street nonetheless. When leases expire and property (plus improvements, e.g. hangar) revert back to the airport authority, they usually put it up for rent so a tenant may be able to continue renting his building.
     
  3. Sep 17, 2016 #83

    TFF

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    If you airport gets federal assistance, the new spec for hangers built by the airport is being able to house a tank, ie big gun, in it with support equipment. One of the area airports just had it overhauled this way; it has an army base feel more than an airport.
     
  4. Sep 17, 2016 #84

    BBerson

    BBerson

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    You need a trailerable hangar. :gig:
    Seriously. The required insurance policy for a fixed hangar is usually $1500 a year. Then they want rent for the lease. Figure the cost to finance the purchase, the lease rent, and insurance, it adds up. Either rented or owned, the fixed costs occur. So that's why I say you don't need a $50,000 hangar for a $5000 aircraft.
     
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  5. Sep 17, 2016 #85

    12notes

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    It's not a local airport rule, it's in Kentucky law. Unless they change state law, we know exactly what will happen in 20 years - no extensions.
     
  6. Sep 17, 2016 #86

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

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    It was like that when I lived in the South and those laws were modified and adjusted all the time with a variance which allowed deviation of the law. They airport was managed by the local police jury.

    If you don't go to your local airport authority regular meetings, try to attend a few and get a feel of the political climate. Rub elbows with the manager/trustee/etc.

    Here where I live now I can buy a hangar at the airport outright and it's mine until I sell it. The land it's sitting on comes with it even though it's on the airport proper.
     
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  7. Sep 18, 2016 #87

    Glider

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    I was told today, it is also 40 years here. I didn't know that either.
     
  8. Sep 18, 2016 #88

    BJC

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    My neighbor bought a nice S-1S that was available because the privately owned hangar where it was based was being claimed by the airport at the end of the land lease.


    BJC
     
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  9. Sep 18, 2016 #89

    lake_harley

    lake_harley

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    I'll admit to not having read every post, but my personal recurring cost isn't the $$....it's time. I live about an hour from where my MiniMAX ultralight is hangared in a 32' X 20' hangar I bought for $2500. Then for about $500 in material and my time I built doors to enclose it. So not really a $$ issue, it's the 2 hours of time for the round trip to get to it. It also holds the Kitfox II that I'm 50% owner of.

    The next recurring issue is....time again. Trying to arrange a time that my CFI friend (and Kitfox partner) and I can coordinate for him to instruct me in the Kitfox until he and I both feel I'm proficient enough to take my MiniMAX into the air for the first time.

    The next issue is again.....time. I spent two years building my MiniMAX, but that was actually an enjoyable process, but now over 1 1/2 years of time has slipped away since it was completed without yet flying it.

    Then there's one more time issue, and that's with helping out at the airport. It only costs $100/year to belong to the organization that "runs" the airport, but it's also expected that we all help with various repairs to the main "clubhouse" on the property, and help mow the grass around the various hangars and the ramp area. Like I said before, the airport is a 2 hour round trip, so it takes at least half a day's time to be a good member of the group when something needs to be done.

    Heck, I'm already 64 years old. I feel like I'm quickly running out of time. With my motorcycles the fun begins when I open the garage door. They're starting to look better and better. But, man, I really do want to fly! I just hope I don't run out of time.

    Lynn
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
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  10. Sep 18, 2016 #90

    TFF

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    Everybody has the time problem. I work at the airport and dont have time to mess with my plane when I am there. I still have to go on my time off which is back to work. That always sets up the possible" can you help me". It really comes down to how much you want it. Some go too far and get divorced over it or other high time hobbies; some dont. 30 min to my RC field. I did the motorcycle thing early and wished I did not. Went for the easy which just really meant less flying.
     
  11. Sep 18, 2016 #91

    VFR-on-top

    VFR-on-top

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    I agree entirely with the time thing. The wise use of time has moved to near the top of my priorities. I gave up a recreational activity last year that I was involved with for 40 years. The 4 hour drive to ride an ATV in the dunes was no longer worth the time.

    So with the aircraft flying thing, I'm making sure whatever I do, will work somewhere near where I live. So far, it's promising.

    Landing a flying ATV is for young people anyway. :) in-air 106x.jpg
     
  12. Sep 18, 2016 #92

    BBerson

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    One hour drive each way isn't that bad. I would jump on a club like this if available.
     
  13. Sep 18, 2016 #93

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

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    I have always used 1hr, one way drive as the max limit. Anything further is not worth it. I kept a plane 1 hr away for several yrs and now I'm in a fractional ownership where the plane is 55 min away. At one point the others were debating moving the plane further away, which would have ended my ownership because I can't drive 3 hrs for a 1hr flight.

    Sometimes I ride my motorcycle to fly the plane, that's a good day!!
     

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