# Raptor NG Discussion

### Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

#### jedi

##### Well-Known Member
"if you had to drop a few million in general aviation, I don't know of any other options out there, they may have just decided this was the best shot. If there are more viable projects out there, please share!"

#### Rataplan

##### Well-Known Member
"if you had to drop a few million in general aviation, I don't know of any other options out there, they may have just decided this was the best shot. If there are more viable projects out there, please share!"

There must be several "more viable projects" out there. I can offer two or three I would like to share. Who with "that kind of  " wants to know?
with the performance of the raptor a sonerai II would do better,
or an Ultra Light Risen with 115 hp

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
If there are more viable projects out there, please share!
Of course there are, but there is a huge gap and problem for the people who don't know how to approach asking for money.

That Raptor guy can with his utter belief in his project ask and take money from people on the foundation of nothing but belief, is something not many can do through shyness, guilt, lack of confidence, and I mean for real solid projects.

I can name likely 5 Members of this forum who, if you handed them \$2+ million, could work miracles with it, and put a real plane onto the market.

Me, I don't want money because I don't want to be forced into a corner where I HAVE TO DO something for other people, but I do want an aeronautical engineer to design the basic Rohr 2-175 in metal for me ... and I'll put that into the market.

#### nschmandt

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
@jedi I do not have that kind of money...but, you never know who else is following this forum!
@TarDevil I didn't mean that area in particular...anything, really.

If anyone has time, I'd be very curious to know what else is out there that's more viable.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
I do not have that kind of money...but, you never know who else is following this forum!
That's true, I have been approached a number of times over the last 20 years on the Internet by interested Parties. It pays to put it out there, eg; what you are doing.

I am often in disbelief the money raised on 'Fund Me' type sites.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I am often in disbelief the money raised on 'Fund Me' type sites.
The world wide web has enabled world wide panhandling.

BJC

#### jedi

##### Well-Known Member
@jedi I do not have that kind of money...but, you never know who else is following this forum!
@TarDevil I didn't mean that area in particular...anything, really.

If anyone has time, I'd be very curious to know what else is out there that's more viable.
Low and slow but much more user friendly is more viable in today’s market than a 6 passenger piston powered plane that promises light jet performance.

I will talk with you about small light and versatile out of the box projects.

Look at the popularity of ultralights. Lots of room for development in the low and slow off airport operations.

#### Toobuilder

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
...Look at the popularity of ultralights. Lots of room for development in the low and slow off airport operations.
Interesting perspective. I'm a fairly active flier and do get around quite a bit, but I can't remember the last time that I've seen an ultralight in person. And I'm talking a decade or more.

Based on my experience, I thought 103 flying died off completely.

#### Aesquire

##### Well-Known Member
Mostly chased away from most regular airports.

Skydiving, sailplane and hang glider tow operations, and the range of slow pt103 flying is resented and sent to the fringes. See threads on relative sanity opinions!

I'm not being surley! I don't want to fly paragliders into Rochester International. The speed difference is way too high and the wake of a 737 or even a turboprop commuter unpleasant to fly through. Hang gliders don't belong in the same pattern as an RV-7. Even the local sailplane pilots who understand there's no go around don't like traffic with high speed difference.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
The world wide web has enabled world wide panhandling.
As has easy to use CAD software to enable you to imagineer anything to support your panhandling.

The reason this thread exists ......

#### PagoBay

##### Well-Known Member
Interesting perspective. I'm a fairly active flier and do get around quite a bit, but I can't remember the last time that I've seen an ultralight in person. And I'm talking a decade or more. Based on my experience, I thought 103 flying died off completely.
On another thread, I posted that Dan Johnson in a speech on the new anticipated LSA rules said that every Ultralight factory that he talks to is backlogged with orders. Dan Johnson: (1)"Every producer I know of a Part 103 aircraft is backed up with orders." (2)"Those who watched our video (viewed more than 350,000 times), saw my article, or viewed it themselves at Sun ‘n Fun 2018 knew the new Part 103 aircraft as the Just Solo."

Easy to decide that what we see applies to everyone.

Badlands Kitfox Lite - per 2021 Oshkosh interview - 7 to 9 months wait
Aerolite 103 - 2 to 4 months wait per the website
Reports are the Just 103 factory/distributor Top Rudder is not responsive, but that is a different story.

Last edited:

#### Toobuilder

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
If 103 manufacturers are slammed with orders I think thats great. Just commenting that I look up at every airplane that flies overhead and its been a long time that Ive seen one.

Is it more of a "RC model club" culture, where people show up at a field, assemble and then fly within the confines of that field? I guess a cross country in the Mojave desert in an ultralight isnt a whole lot of fun.

#### Hephaestus

##### Well-Known Member
Me, I don't want money because I don't want to be forced into a corner where I HAVE TO DO something for other people, but I do want an aeronautical engineer to design the basic Rohr 2-175 in metal for me ... and I'll put that into the market.
A 2-175 clone would be lovely, in any material It's still top of my list for the 'easiest' least complex 'build'

Unfortunately I think getting the ducted fan right - will be the true nightmare of that design; unless the rohr fanjet book actually put some details/numbers from the original design into the world.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
A company can be backed up with a count of three orders. Production capacity is probably petty important metric. Was it from the Vans video, a parts run is 25 pieces? About 500-600 kits a year. 20-25 kits per month out the door is about right. They also have a hundred employees. A crew of 3-5 people with even a much simpler plane is not going to kick out a bunch of planes. Except at Oshkosh, I haven seen a new 103 UL in person. The ones I see are old ones.

#### jedi

##### Well-Known Member
Toobulder see "Thread Drift" in Hanger Flying for more on the slow speed, 103 type development and comments.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
Unfortunately I think getting the ducted fan right - will be the true nightmare of that design; unless the rohr fanjet book actually put some details/numbers from the original design into the world.
Yes they did.

The fan design and detail blueprints are all public, it was designed by the World's leading turbocharger manufacturer at the time, Garret AiResearch/Honeywell, and the plane flew well.

Page 2 has all the good stuff ...

#### Hephaestus

##### Well-Known Member

thank the russians for copy/paste and rehosting Few higher res / different pics than usually pop up.

hadn't looked at the duct details drawing before; knew a lot of the prop governor drawings were available.