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Raptor Composite Aircraft

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pictsidhe

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Jul 15, 2014
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Only if the tooling can be used to make something useful. I expect a lot of the tooling takes the form of molds and fixtures unique to the airframe.
Yeah, much less valuable, unless someone can fix the design and its saleability. I bet a lot could be done with the weight. The performance needs a major downgrade.
Exactly. The point is, the tooling is worthless unless the airframe succeeds.
Which is looking increasingly unlikely.
 

BJC

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An airframe with unproven aerodynamic qualities,
control systems that are questionable,
controls that resonate with nose wheel shimmy,
an unproven structure,
an unproven engine,
an unproven turbocharger system,
an unproven PSRU
an unproven engine cooling system,
a questionable scheme for retaining windows under pressurization,
1,3000+ pounds over weight,
a developer who ignores constructive criticism,
self-imposed pressure to impress a crowd of You Tube true-believers,
promised performance that will require a miracle,
and a significant time and financial investment with ever lessening probability of any financial return.

So far the only good thing that has happened is that the test pilot refused to fly it.

I just don’t understand why everyone here is so skeptical.


BJC
 

Scheny

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Feb 26, 2019
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Vienna, Austria
As I see it, the competition isn't Cirrus but rather the three other pressurized piston singles. Cessna P210, Mooney M22 and Piper Meridian PA-46 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-46

The 3000 pound empty weight is about the same as a PA-46. So why was his initial weight estimate of a pressurized airplane so low? The market prices are in the millions for these pressurized certified airplanes.
I looked but didn't find the P210 weight. To see what the pressurized weight penalty is from a typical turbo non-pressurized Centurion 210.
TheP210 has an empty weight of 2481lbs including the stronger engine, the better avionics and the pressurization.
 

BBerson

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TheP210 has an empty weight of 2481lbs including the stronger engine, the better avionics and the pressurization.
Ok, then I would suggest his Raptor prototype is perhaps about 500 pounds over a typical P210 and same empty weight as a Malibu. Some of the Pipers are much more.
 
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Venom

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Jun 26, 2016
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Pacific NW
Is it me, or does $2,700,000 seem a lot for this project?
Much like our friends in the capital markets industry....OPM! Other peoples money.
He may not be much of an aviation craftsman, but he has a pretty good track record as a saleman.
 

FarmBoy

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Mar 14, 2012
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129
Location
Gainesville, VA
Ok, then I would suggest his Raptor prototype is perhaps about 500 pounds over a typical P210 and same empty weight as a Malibu. Some of the Pipers are much more.
He might be able to drop 1-200lbs by swapping for a Graflight V-8 - and it looks like they are actually available for sale now: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/july/24/certification-for-eps-v8-diesel-in-progress. And at least it has the HP to get the bloated beast airborne.

We'll all have to wait a bit longer to get one of these: http://www.ac-aero.com/jet-a/ (E330J/G HAWK (V4) in particular) which, if it comes to fruition, may be able to shave off 3-400lbs and have more power. They certainly look like they mean business! - http://www.ac-aero.com/rs-series/. Given the E1000 J/G CONDOR is targeting the Pratt & Whitney PT6, I think we'll be seeing more from this company in the future.
 
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BBerson

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Steel case?
He doesn't need a certificated engine. Usually that means years to wait and extra cost.
 

FarmBoy

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Gainesville, VA
Steel case?
He doesn't need a certificated engine. Usually that means years to wait and extra cost.
True though it looks like they have non-certified engines for sale as well. Not a lot of diesel options available now in this power/weight range. Was just looking at reliable, roughly bolt-on diesel options.
 

BBerson

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True though it looks like they have non-certified engines for sale as well. Not a lot of diesel options available now in this power/weight range. Was just looking at reliable, roughly bolt-on diesel options.
Yes, I think he should definitely look at that engine as an option, especially if lighter.
 

BBerson

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Yes, he should also compare his design with that aircraft. I don't know why he doesn't. Perhaps because it and other pressurized pistons are out of production.
Realistically, his diesel and AC equipped aircraft should weigh somewhat more than that or any similar SI aircraft.
So maybe 2500 or something was a sensible number to shoot for. The 1800 pound empty weight for a diesel is unrealistic. A diesel will always have a higher empty weight, but could break even on a very long range with more miles per gallon.
Really, the gross weight should be compared with similar aircraft. If the prototype is heavy then it will have a limited payload, but should still fly if others did at that gross weight.
It isn't ideal to test fly a prototype at near gross weight but may have happened before, I suppose.
I wouldn't do it.

Edit- I was reading the Raptor Aircraft wiki page and they did propose a future turbine.
 
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