# Raptor Composite Aircraft

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by Dexacare, Mar 28, 2016.

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1. Aug 18, 2019

### Malish

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I'm reading this staff everyday and I know how is difficult working on experimental aircraft. Everyday some challenges. I'm not supporting Peter on his design, but it's difficult make everything right at first time.
We're to some times making mistakes, but we're learn the lessons and taking advises from an others.

Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
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2. Aug 19, 2019

### pictsidhe

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A metal leaf spring would work, too...

3. Aug 19, 2019

### pictsidhe

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I hope that you have noticed Peter's marketing skills, you will benefit from some good marketing.
I hope you continue to use your own design and development methods...
Peter is no doubt learning some hard lessons about aircraft design and construction. Maybe he will learn to listen to other people someday, too.

4. Aug 19, 2019

### rv6ejguy

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We all make mistakes and go down some wrong paths building planes, especially if we are forging ahead in new territory. Being arrogant and thinking you know more than established designers with years or decades of actual experience when you have none however, is simply ridiculous. The results so far have clearly demonstrated what is likely to happen- ending up with a seriously overweight airframe with an unreliable propulsion system and overly-complicated and questionable systems reliability. This says nothing of what may be revealed in flight testing with regards to performance, stability and control plus missing the cost estimates by miles.

Making Raptor successful will require massive redesign. It has much more than a few minor issues.

Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
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5. Aug 19, 2019

### Malish

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I did see how Peter market his plane and I'm very surprise how he doing it. I will never do something like this.
First of all, we wouldn't ever promise anything until airplane test flown and ready for production.
Second, we will not set unrealistic price for aircraft, until we're know cost of producing the kit.
Right now we have 100+ customers around the world, who would like to buy our kit aircraft. But we can't start taking orders, as production of kit's is not setup yet. To setup production will require additional finances, that is why we're looking for investor(s).

6. Aug 21, 2019

### flyboy2160

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I don't know anything about how this oil feed to the prop is done on other planes. I never could figure out the need for his inner shuttle/sleeve thingy. Why not just get rid of it, fill the whole thing with oil, provide guzinta and guzoutta lines, and have the tapered bearings running in oil? He seems to have gotten half way there with the latest mods. Am I missing something?

7. Aug 21, 2019

### rv6ejguy

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It's another messy redesign of the PSRU this week. I said the last iteration would leak and it did. Now they will weld on the bearing housing, maybe warp that and take the heat treatment out of it perhaps.

He needs pressure oil for the CS prop. Should have gone for an electric CS MT prop instead from the start. Would work fine for a cruising airplane like this and would have saved hundreds of hours of screwing around. Almost every other auto powered aircraft using a PSRU and CS, uses an electric prop. He claims that even MT didn't recommend their electric version as it reacts too slowly. Why would MT even make it then? I have friends flying MT electrics on 200-250hp aircraft and they work fine as long as you're not doing aerobatics.

I see the test flights will now be drawn out into October likely, assuming nothing major goes wrong in ground testing-which is assuming a lot.

I just wonder who would do work on this powerplant/ PSRU/ complicated systems combination? Not A&Ps and not auto mechanics. Peter must think it will be so reliable, almost no maintenance work would need to be done on it. Who'd stock replacement parts? This goes along with who would insure these things and what would the training requirements be to qualify for insurance?

So many things not thought out well here for a plane supposedly designed for production...

Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
8. Aug 21, 2019

### pictsidhe

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Looking at Peter's replies to assorted comments, he seems to be using suck it and see engineering.

9. Aug 21, 2019

### Andy_RR

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There's definitely a giant sucking sound. Sooner or later we'll see.

10. Aug 21, 2019

### Victor Bravo

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O... M... F... G...

"In order to do this we require as many deposits as possible in order to obtain the lowest possible wholesale pricing from all the vendors. We will then be passing on those savings to you with very little mark up."

The guy with the huge gleaming white smile, who did all those GRQ real estate info-mercials, told the audience to get advances on their credit cards to buy his video course, then took everyone's money, and then was indicted for fraud, and then disappeared.... has anyone seen him around a plastic surgeon's office lately?

The guy who had the TV religious broadcasts who "spoke in tongues" like a wildman, and made $800K a month in "vows of faith" from poor people... Robert Tilton... has he been seen around a plastic surgeon's office lately? Has anyone seen TV evangelist Benny Hinn hanging around a plastic surgeon's office lately? Last edited: Aug 21, 2019 11. Aug 21, 2019 ### Venom ### Venom #### Active Member Joined: Jun 26, 2016 Messages: 28 Likes Received: 6 Location: Pacific NW Ya know, the man built a pretty reasonable engine test stand. He had good telemetry and good data collection and good control. Simple common sense would tell you that you're going to have lots of problems developing a new power/transmission system of this complexity. Likewise common sense would tell you to run the entire drive system on the test stand for hundreds and hundreds of hours, maybe even thousands, until you have found and corrected all of the weak points. Any propulsion system should be able to complete entire flight profiles, from start up to shutdown, time after time, with perfect reliability before the new drive system ever leaves the test stand. It takes months or years, not the twenty hours this guy claims to have run it. But the real issue is not propulsion system development, it is why all of the obvious shortcuts, miss steps, false starts, and changes throughout the entire project. It would appear that the answer to that lies in a lack of leadership, lack of understanding of aviation methods, and the software industry, "throw it against the wall and see what sticks" mentality. The airplane has a MASSIVE weight problem which is NOT related to "prototype", it is a result of priorities. The airplane is loaded with untested components and systems which are going to result in problems and failures just like his failed spring did. It appears that his pride will not let him admit failure so he will stay at it until the airplane flys at least once. I would be willing to bet that at some point the airplane sustains an in-flight failure which results in an emergency chute deployment....and that will be the end of the project. Maybe then the smooth talkin' pretty boy programmer salesman will be forced back into his cubical with keyboard. Last edited: Aug 21, 2019 rv6ejguy likes this. 12. Aug 21, 2019 ### flyboy2160 ### flyboy2160 #### Well-Known Member Joined: May 25, 2014 Messages: 242 Likes Received: 121 Location: california, USA Maybe not. There seems to be lots of suckers around. Boom Supersonic, also started by an ex IT manager, has gotten a lot more money (>$20M?) and attention without about the same level of outrageous claims.

13. Aug 21, 2019

### flyboy2160

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Hmm, maybe the gaps between the slim bearings and the shaft act as pressure relief limiters or pressure 'resistors.' He can develop close to full pressure in the sleeve cavity, but still have a low pressure path back to the sump?

14. Aug 21, 2019

### rv6ejguy

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The big worry today on YT from one guy was about whether cup holders would be installed... Yeah, that's certainly a priority on the prototype.

15. Aug 21, 2019

### FarmBoy

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Yes, he could easily drop in one of these: https://www.autopsrus.com/velocity (no affiliation to company). And probably save about 300 lbs in the process.

Or better yet, he could have asked AutoPSRUs if they could adapt their PSRU to one of these engines: https://www.vividracing.com/ford-racing-23l-mustang-ecoboost-crate-engine-p-151854857.html and drop another 100 lbs off his build weight. Tuning and intercooling alone take this engine to >350HP at the crank at 4000RPM (https://www.drivingline.com/articles/ecoboosted-adding-96-hp-to-ford-s-23l-ford-mustang/) and it wouldn't take much to size turbos appropriately for his altitude targets. Not sure what AutoPSRUs does with ECU customization but this company has dual ECUs that would likely work nicely: http://www.sdsefi.com/.

Though an HR35TT would be sweet if one could actually buy one, an apt engine for his airplane would actually be one of these: https://www.vividracing.com/ford-racing-35l-gtdi-ecoboost-engine-kit-p-151600314.html. Identical to the F-150 "Raptor" engine aside from turbo selection, this engine is capable of of over 400HP@3500RPM at the crank with only intake, exhaust, and ECU mods (https://www.gtkraft.com/ford-f-150-raptor-3-5-ecoboost-performance-upgrade/).

While not a diesel, it would be capable of running on AV or MoGas. And a simple, light weight, proven deicing systems are readily available to add another desired option: http://www.rddent.com/thermawingtrade.html

16. Aug 21, 2019

### rv6ejguy

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The AutoPSRUS have had failures in the past and are something like \$15K. Not sure if all the bugs have been worked out yet. Never keen on the clutch part. Extra weight and complexity.

If he must go with an auto engine, a lightly boosted LS3 would be way easier to make work and save a lot of weight. There are a couple of better gearboxes compatible with hydraulic CS props which will fit, but neither are cheap. Electric prop with a Ballistic drive would be the way I'd head with this.

This Audi engine with the present PSRU will never make it to production status.

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17. Aug 21, 2019

### FarmBoy

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What gearbox is better? I'm not aware of any that have been issue free.

I'd still lean towards a moderately boosted V6 over an LS3 from a weight savings perspective. In an aircraft you are really throwing away the cylinder volume of a V8 at altitude (along with other parasitic losses) whereas you can reclaim more with the V6.

18. Aug 21, 2019

### BJC

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I would have developed the Raptor around the Continental TSIO-550, with a thought toward a follow-up auto conversion. Fly it with the -550, debug the airframe (I predict some serious challenges there), get it into production, then develop the auto conversion on a test stand. It’s too easy to choke to death trying to eat an elephant in one bite.

BJC

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19. Aug 21, 2019

### Victor Bravo

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These folks still want to put the main air scoop on top of the fuselage.... We have a very appropriate expression for this kind of thinking... Oy Gevalt!

20. Aug 21, 2019

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