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Raptor Composite Aircraft

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donjohnston

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Obviously Velocity now are taking an interest in a 'clone' of there a/c. I did suggest several posts ago that Velocity could/should consider some sort of bilateral, agreement with PM to ensure that the Raptor is airworthy??? etc, as a crash of the Raptor would tar the Velocity or similar canards with the same brush, making their well proven design unsafe in the eyes of "Joe Public". The alternative is to distance themselves completely with PM /Raptor, with some sort of statement of ' just because it looks the same, beauty is only skin deep !!!!
I don't think they are taking an interest. Merely making it known that they offer transition training. Which they provide to anyone willing to pay for it.

Having any type of agreement with PM would only have a downside. Just like Wasabi discovered.

And Joe Public's eyes are irrelevant. The person who thinks that just because it has a canard means a one-off poorly executed aircraft is the same as one that's been built for 30 years isn't the person who builds an airplane. People interested in building an airplane do enough due diligence to know the difference.
 
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BBerson

Light Plane Philosopher
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Port Townsend WA
I came across some more information on the Raptor team. Jeff Kerlo is listed as the director of engineering on the project. He worked at Velocity, on the Maverick jet, S51 and designed and built the Orion canard among others. So it seems they have an experienced designer here after all. What's not clear is if Peter makes a lot of the design decisions and whether these are overseen and approved by Jeff. What is hard to understand is how things like area ruling and some of the performance figures and systems design issues have come out with an experienced designer involved.

Anyway, they've got the wings closed out now and are working on getting all the avionics and electrics working.
The Orion canard is very similar to Raptor. It would be interesting to compare the weight and performance of the Orion.
 

Jay Kempf

Curmudgeon in Training (CIT)
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I like how after the fan club slammed wasabi for wearing a flight suit and helmet that PM now wears a flight suit and helmet.
Actually seemed perfectly professional to me. Flight suit, probably nomex; helmet with face mask with radio and positive pressure air, independent filtered or pressurized breathing system. You do your best to know what the client built but you don't really know in the end. That stuff might save you from a cabin fire. For small low altitude hops a parachute ain't gonna help but being able to get it on the ground and stay conscious would be insurance I'd want. Pretty standard stuff in their world I would guess. Pretty solid planning.

Was just looking at a Lancair 4P for sale on ebay and reading the performance specs sounded pretty close... TISO-550 pressurized to 5psi diff, experimental supposed kit built in factory molds... Uber conventional layout. Then there is the temptation to go turbine and you can't carry enough fuel to make it worth it.
 

rv6ejguy

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Was just looking at a Lancair 4P for sale on ebay and reading the performance specs sounded pretty close... TISO-550 pressurized to 5psi diff, experimental supposed kit built in factory molds... Uber conventional layout. Then there is the temptation to go turbine and you can't carry enough fuel to make it worth it.
The Lanciar IV-P is the airplane that Raptor wants to be but actually exists and does the numbers (outside of Peter's impossible range figures). Raptor brings nothing new to the table that hasn't already existed for 20 years. Lancairs were pretty revolutionary. Raptor isn't.
 

Volzalum

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The Lanciar IV-P is the airplane that Raptor wants to be but actually exists and does the numbers (outside of Peter's impossible range figures). Raptor brings nothing new to the table that hasn't already existed for 20 years. Lancairs were pretty revolutionary. Raptor isn't.
Of course since 1995 there have been over 70 Lancair IV crashes ...
 

flywheel1935

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Nov 1, 2018
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Downham Market, Norfolk, UK.
This time around I'm doing some tests to see how much more time I have at full power with the cabin heater helping to dissipate some of the heat from the engine. 🤕 Latest PM YT Video,
Latest Yawn Fest from Valdosta, is this guy real, putting the heater on because he f*cked up the engine cooling system ????
this aircraft has more 'Band-Aid' solutions than Grays Anatomy🤯
 

rv6ejguy

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Of course since 1995 there have been over 70 Lancair IV crashes ...
As with many high wing loading designs, they can develop high sink rates if improperly flown. Proper training and adherence to the 'numbers' is essential. I think doctors in Bonanzas had a bad rep for many years but there wasn't anything wrong with the Bonanzas. As far as I know, there are no inherent design, stability, control issues with the IV/IV-P. Putting inexperienced/ low time, untrained or non-current folks in any high performance airplane is going to result in lots of prangs.

I don't see where Raptor would be any different in this regard.
 

BJC

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is this guy real, putting the heater on because he f*cked up the engine cooling system ????
Peter does not have a monopoly on that.

Mercedes-Benz automobiles had that problem: they would overheat when stopped in traffic in the summertime in Florida, unless one opened the windows and ran maximum heat. German engineering at its finest.

BJC
 

BoKu

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...putting the heater on because he f*cked up the engine cooling system ????
this aircraft has more 'Band-Aid' solutions than Grays Anatomy🤯
I once had to do two stints in a race car at Buttonwillow where we had to run the cabin heater to help dissipate some heat. Even with no side windows it was hatefully hot; it would have been unbearable without our water-cooled T-shirts. Given that this airplane is nominally sealed up like it's supposed to be pressurized, I can imagine that a little heat would go a long way.

I hope Peter takes Velocity up on the training offer so he has a better idea how to handle it when temperatures go out of bounds and he needs to get it on the ground quickly.
 

poormansairforce

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Let's see, So he can run full throttle for 90 seconds so if you take away the 30 seconds to get off the ground he's got one minute to climb and then he says he has to pull it back to 60% power of 240+/- which is about 144 horsepower. Does anyone here think this plane can climb well on 144 horsepower? Obviously this is a worst case scenario and you would think that he would get a lot more cooling effect at airspeed if everything is designed properly. And that was was with the heater fan turned on.:oops:
 

BoKu

Pundit
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Let's see, So he can run full throttle for 90 seconds so if you take away the 30 seconds to get off the ground he's got one minute to climb and then he says he has to pull it back to 60% power of 240+/- which is about 144 horsepower. Does anyone here think this plane can climb well on 144 horsepower? Obviously this is a worst case scenario and you would think that he would get a lot more cooling effect at airspeed if everything is designed properly. And that was was with the heater fan turned on.:oops:
As Tom Wolfe wrote in The Right Stuff, it can blow at any seam. And this thing has a lot of seams, and every seam has a lot of perimeter length, and none of them have been particularly rigorously tested. Based on what I've seen in the videos I think that he'll have enough airflow through the scoop to keep engine coolant temps out of the red up to pattern altitude. It's the EGT and oil temperature that I'm most worried about. We'll see. Hopefully he gets some engine failure training from the Velocity guys.
 

donjohnston

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Panama City, FL
He was too aggressive with the elevator on rotation and I got to witness the stall behaviour my LEZ friend told me about. Fortunately he didn't shove a bunch of down in it like we've seen Peter do. He just held on and it damped out after maybe 3 cycles as airspeed increased.
At what altitude did this happen? It sounds like very close to the runway.
 

231TC

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Aug 29, 2020
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I don't think they are taking an interest. Merely making it known that they offer transition training. Which they provide to anyone willing to pay for it.
Seemed like more than that to me. I don't think they have any interest in acquiring the Raptor, nor are they worried about a canard crash sullying their established brand, but I inferred from their post that they were willing to give him a deal on training ("We will make that happen") because they are genuinely concerned about his safety. But maybe I read intent into it that wasn't there.

He's sounding like he now intends to do the first real flight himself, after a couple more ground effect flights. I don't particularly care if he does fly it around the pattern, as long as he doesn't kill any bystanders, which he most likely won't. But then after that first flight, is he going to think he's now qualified to do all the testing? Wouldn't surprise me.
 
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