# Raptor Composite Aircraft

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#### pictsidhe

##### Banned
We almost never know the exact power on conversions, but roll rate, stall speed and best glide speed, sink rate in a turn and more can be looked at. If the prop diameter and pitch are entered X-Plane will estimate power.
We don't know the pitch either. Peter tweaks it often to maximise acceleration.
I estimated hp from the acceleration some months back. It was a lot lower than Peter estimates.

##### Well-Known Member
Kind of reminds me of the Extra EA-400 which was built by Walter Extra. Extra EA-400 - Wikipedia

It also was a carbon fiber 'miracle' plane that went way overweight and ended up being 3350# empty with only a 350HP TSIO550L to push it along. A similar spec Cessna P210N (I have one) is around 1000# lighter. Walter put in a water cooled engine in order to try and gain some hp to push the tank along however this engine was finicky and caused many issues. He gave up and redeveloped the airframe for a turboprop (EA-500). However by then he was out of money and Extra went bankrupt.
Carbon can certainly be a lot lighter than a conventional alu airframe if done right. The Raptor has thicker laminates than I've ever seen in the biggest turboprops.

Two things massively hindered the EA400; an engine system that's a few hundred pounds heavier than yours and very conservative KD factors for composites, especially in that era. While your airframe is certified to fail above 150% limit load (say 6G's @ 4G limit load), many composite airframes have to demonstrate no failure until up to 3 times limit load. LBA allowable for certified UD CFRP for example is 600 MPa with 350 MPa at limit load. Seen enough test articles fail at close to or over 1000 MPa...

In light aircraft the differences are bigger since much of the structure is driven by buckling. A carbon panel will certainly be less than half the weight than an alu one.

#### donjohnston

##### Well-Known Member
I'm struggling to figure out where this 8K' field is. There's nothing like that in Georgia that isn't military or Hartsfield. And Huntsville is one of those places that is nearby by air, but a more difficult "get" on the ground.
Augusta, Savannah and Brunswick.

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I've had the privilege to meet and even fly with several people who have graduated USAF or USN TPS, and have also had the privilege to know people who were qualified as civilian test pilots but didn't graduate a military TPS.

One of the non-graduate guys I have flown with is just about the most highly experienced and respected test guy for small civilian airplanes, the ones that are essentially irrelevant to the military but far more relevant to GA.

Is a graduate of the National Test Pilots School in Mojave not qualified to test a light GA airplane, because the school is civilian?

Another acquaintance of mine is an AF FTE, but not a TPS graduate. He teaches the spins and spin testing to the EDW TPS students in gliders.

How many light general aviation airplanes are relevant to the USAF and US Navy, to the point that they do flight test on them?

Also... what specifically would the exact, correct, 100% relevant education and experience be, to perform flight test a light GA canard aircraft with a screwy piston engine and powertrain...

- AF TPS graduate who was in the first two-ship F-4 Wild Weasel mission over Baghdad, on the very first night in 1991? (I know him personally, really nice guy)
- AF TPS graduate who did the first flight on Have Blue? (no idea who that was)
- Non-TPS civilian with most of his experience in <3000 pound GA

I don't know Elliot personally very well, met him once to give him a propeller in a coffee shop. Before anyone calls him or anyone else a wanna-be, I think that his qualifications should be compared side by side with other civilian test pilots, and then cross-reference against the aircraft being tested. If Elliot starts loudly boasting about his skills and qualifications to flight test the F-22, then all the TPS graduates can stand up and call him a wannabe.

But 90% of the handful of test pilots I've met personally would be the very last ones to bad-mouth anyone, look down their nose at anyone, etc. In my personal experience speaking with them, the bigger and more spectacular their resume is, the smaller their ego.

#### narfi

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
the bigger and more spectacular their resume is, the smaller their ego.
The smaller their need for an ego.

#### Jonthony Niglet

Cool! Thanks for sharing! The master's degree in flight test engineering is a pipe dream of mine, but the price tag ( $1 million as Elliot notes) is likely to keep it that way. Maybe I'll forgo some vacations and try the short courses. #### cheapracer ##### Well-Known Member Log Member the bigger and more spectacular their resume is, the smaller their ego. You have to include experience on any resume, of which they don't seem to be lacking .. #### cheapracer ##### Well-Known Member Log Member Just curious: Do all those taxi test runs cost money, like landing fees? #### Jonthony Niglet ##### Member Word around Cherokee airport today is that he's moving to south Georgia. Valdosta. KVLD. 8,000 foot runway. Valdosta is near the FL border, a 4 hr drive south of Cherokee? I don't know how close he lives to Cherokee right now but I don't envy a 4 hr one-way commute. #### Kyle Boatright ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Word around Cherokee airport today is that he's moving to south Georgia. Valdosta. KVLD. 8,000 foot runway. I was over there this morning looking for you and/or Peter. No joy on either of you. Valdosta is a long move, but should be a good test flying location. I wish him luck. #### rbarnes ##### Well-Known Member I'm going to love to see how he is going to haul this 12' wide vehicle without removing that 1,000 lbs engine #### flywheel1935 ##### Well-Known Member Seems a long way to go for 'only' another 2000ft, + looks to be a fairly built up area surrounding the airfield, would have thought moving closer to Wasabi, would be more cost effective as well. ??? #### Rod Schneider ##### Active Member Valdosta is near the FL border, a 4 hr drive south of Cherokee? I don't know how close he lives to Cherokee right now but I don't envy a 4 hr one-way commute. He’s been renting an apartment or long term hotel here. I’m sure he will relocate near the airport. #### Jay Kempf ##### Curmudgeon in Training (CIT) Lifetime Supporter What's the point of this? Huge runway on flat land with ocean all around. They built and tested some NASA stuff here and the F-14 and others. Flat bed about$1500 from Georgia.

There is also a huge runway in Arkansas City, KS. GE owns or leases it. Flat as a pancake in all directions. No civilization anywhere around. Ex SAC base.

Why trifle with a little more runway with shopping malls all around.

Splitting hairs or solve the problem. Mohave is good too. Once the thing passes muster he can get a ferry permit to fly it back after so many hours of flight time.

Post 4999

#### Geraldc

##### Well-Known Member
Ok so I have landed on post 5000.
From the previous 5000 odd posts what I have learnt is that there are some benefits from what Peter has done.
My choice would be a Velocity xl with the Audi motor Peter is using BUT with a proper redrive
like they are sucessfully putting on Chev LS motors and a properly set up Turbo.
Where I live Diesel is a third the price of 100ll so the Audi would be cheap(ish ) to run.

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