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Raptor Composite Aircraft

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Toobuilder

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I just don't understand why Peter didn't base the Raptor project out of a large airport in flat geography like Mojave or Cal City or Reno Stead. At any of those places he would have had a better area for test flying, and established pools of composites and aero engineering expertise.
Don't give him any ideas - I don't want that thing flying over MY house!

As for engineering expertise - plenty here in Aerospace Valley, but that only means more people for him to ignore.
 

Kyle Boatright

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I just don't understand why Peter didn't base the Raptor project out of a large airport in flat geography like Mojave or Cal City or Reno Stead. At any of those places he would have had a better area for test flying, and established pools of composites and aero engineering expertise.
Maybe he had a major sponsor or inexpensive labor from the Atlanta area. But picking Cherokee county was a poor choice. There are a half dozen much better choices within a hundred miles of Cherokee County: Rome, Winder, Piedmont/Center, West Georgia, Dalton, Gainsville.

There's plenty of Aero engineering talent in Atlanta. But I don't think Peter was actively looking for expert help.
 

BBerson

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It shouldn't be that difficult to pull the wings and haul it to another airport for the testing. Might need to amend the approved operating area.
 

Kyle Boatright

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It shouldn't be that difficult to pull the wings and haul it to another airport for the testing. Might need to amend the approved operating area.
Looking at the dimensions posted online and the assembly videos, I think he'll have to remove the outer wings, and twist it along the roll axis to get it down the road. The canards measure just over 15' wide and the stub wings look slightly wider. The other option is to pull the outer wings and the engine/PSRU/Prop, put it on a trailer sideways, and maybe rotate it in pitch to achieve a roadable width. A wide load permit will be required in either case. Not that I know anything about wide load permits, but it looks like Georgia's Maximum is 15'6", but that only applies to certain roads. From Cherokee County, there are possible routes that stay on 4 lane or larger state highways or Interstate highways all the way to the Rome airport.
 

BBerson

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The canard is 15.33 ft. The hull looks slightly more, but under 15' 6", is my guess. Is that width limit with a fee permit?
I would just lift one wing up, if needed. That's how they haul hydroplane boats.
 

TFF

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Look like a Grapes of Wrath Okey and he will have pity to get anywhere. Trailer, hull and wing supports, he probably has to cut fairings to get to wing and canard mount bolts. Now how do you insure it. Real value or sneak to save money? To move it will be a big deal. Move it 2400 miles to where he should? Painful. Then he’s got to put it together. Two month adventure to get it apart and back together.
 

UAVGuy

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First off, as far as I know, this is the first time Elliot and Justin have brought the PA. So if having the PA on site for the test flight (using it as the chase airplane) was, indeed, a requirement, then there was zero chance of getting airborne on the first two visits. Ouch. That is a bit of a head scratcher for me. Why is Peter flying them out if there is zero chance of doing a test flight. And why did they both need to come ? Peter should have done at least one inspection round with a local inspector.

As far as needing more open space around the airport, who's words are those ? Peter or Justin ? I'm guessing that the surrounding terrain is part of the issue, but the real issue is the length of the runway. Peter has shown that he can taxi the plane, get it barely airborne and then brake to make the final approach way. I'm guessing that Justin wants to be able to get the airplane barely airborne and hold it there while he gets a feel for the flight characteristics. Or maybe there isn't enough runway length cushion to get it up to speed, attempt a takeoff and be able to abort and come to a safe stop.

Either way, I have way too much faith in Elliot and Justin to believe that the issue of the airport not being suitable either didn't come up before or something came up today that made them reassess its suitability.
 

UAVGuy

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Look like a Grapes of Wrath Okey and he will have pity to get anywhere. Trailer, hull and wing supports, he probably has to cut fairings to get to wing and canard mount bolts. Now how do you insure it. Real value or sneak to save money? To move it will be a big deal. Move it 2400 miles to where he should? Painful. Then he’s got to put it together. Two month adventure to get it apart and back together.
Was the Raptor designed to be taken apart ? I seem to remember some bolts securing the the main spar that goes through the cabin to the wing spars.
 

rbarnes

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Wings come off, but the move from the "shop" to the airport proved shipping the "vehicle" anywhere of distance will be a non-trival endeavor
 

UAVGuy

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Wings come off, but the move from the "shop" to the airport proved shipping the "vehicle" anywhere of distance will be a non-trival endeavor
They have the cradle (mold) for the hull. Should be able to set it in/on that on a trailer.
 

rbarnes

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They have the cradle (mold) for the hull. Should be able to set it in/on that on a trailer.
Overwidth. over 8' 6" wide and it's easier said then done to just out it on a trailer. It will have to be transported set at 45* angle
 

BoKu

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Wings come off, but the move from the "shop" to the airport proved shipping the "vehicle" anywhere of distance will be a non-trival endeavor
This appears to be the greater part of that adventure. A few miles, probably not a problem. A few dozen miles, probably a different matter. I wonder how kit builders are expected to do it?

 

cheapracer

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Still, this is Wasabi's business and .... I kinda feel for Peter here.

I'm sure I'm missing something.
Seems to me that they bought in the chase plane means they were prepared for flight, but found something, or a combo of things that put them off. If you have watched these guys videos, they fly some unknown quantities so it's not like they are ultra-conservative.

Still comes back down to the entire program, who builds a complete 100% vehicle THEN tests it? His own arrogance and poor decision making is now biting him, I feel nothing for him. That decision making includes knowing he was building a large 5 seat aircraft, and then moving to that 'unsuitable for test flights' airport.

Also don't rule out a stand up argument about the test procedure and/or more things to rectify or things on the previous lists that haven't been done yet.



I have a feeling the next video will have Peter accusing certain people of wasting his time.
Yup, and for the second time too. If I was Wasabi I would have dumped him after the "cable pulleys" video.



If I want to be a world class manufacturer of sailplanes I have to move to Germany.
:Boku has left the chat: 🤣
 
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UAVGuy

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Overwidth. over 8' 6" wide and it's easier said then done to just out it on a trailer. It will have to be transported set at 45* angle
Over width stuff gets hauled all the time. The whole plane isn't over width, just the wing stubs. That makes it a lot easier. I see no problem loading that plane and its wings onto a trailer and hauling it wherever it needs to go. I'm guessing it can be trucked for about $3/mile.
 

UAVGuy

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Still comes back down to the entire program, who builds a complete 100% vehicle THEN tests it? His own arrogance and poor decision making is now biting him, I feel nothing for him. That decision making includes knowing he was building a large 5 seat aircraft, and then moving to that 'unsuitable for test flights' airport.
It isn't the end of the world to move it. The way some of you talk it is like mission impossible to move it. Peter designed it with removable wings. Once the wings are removed, it can easily be lifted by a tele handler, crane or hoist onto a trailer. The load will be over width, but not over length, height or weight. It is not a big deal to truck such a load.

Cat 657 scrapers get hauled around all the time in one piece. They are 65 feet long, 15 feet high, 14.32 feet wide and weight 150,000 pounds. The Raptor is a piece of cake to move compared to a 657. Which is easy to move compared to even larger construction equipment, like a 300 ton rock truck. A CAT 793 rock truck is 24 feet+ wide and there is no way to make the box narrower.
 
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cheapracer

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It isn't the end of the world to move it. The way some of you talk ...
What you on about, I never indicated otherwise, anywhere. In fact I recently moved my plane myself by merely removing the wings and tying the tail down to the towball of my Mazda 6 to get the front wheel off the ground, easy peasy. Got lots of looks driving down the road!

But since he has made his finances surrounding the project very clear, you might enlighten us on how he's going to pay for the move* as it would seem apparent that he doesn't have the funds?

*"move" includes associated costs, hangar, accomodation ect.

PS: I live in a city that has the World's largest Heavy Engineering Works in the World, and one of the World's largest producers of wind turbines, they truck massive stuff around here including 48mtr/160ft turbine blades.
 

UAVGuy

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What you on about, I never indicated otherwise, anywhere. In fact I recently moved my plane myself by merely removing the wings and tying the tail down to the towball of my Mazda 6 to get the front wheel off the ground, easy peasy. Got lots of looks driving down the road!

But since he has made his finances surrounding the project very clear, you might enlighten us on how he's going to pay for the move* as it would seem apparent that he doesn't have the funds?

*"move" includes associated costs, hangar, accomodation ect.
I don't know how he is going to pay for the move or the rest of the flight test program for that matter. I am not his book keeper.

What I do know is that Peter hasn't quit and doesn't look like he is going to quit anytime soon. He has a lot of followers and supporters. I'm sure he'll figure something out.

I'm not saying that I agree with everything Peter does, but let's give him a heap of praise for not quitting and not giving up. He might not have built the perfect plane or even a good plane, but he did not quit and he followed it through to the end. For that he deserves pretty high praise.
 
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