Raptor Composite Aircraft

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ScaleBirdsScott

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And why is there SO much stuff to fix so late into the build of the aircraft ? Did he not get the whole model reviewed before entering the production of the prototype ? Is there no organization you have to go through in America to get your plane approved ?
Of course there's no organized development plan required to build a prototype experimental. To get it registered to fly it has to be looked at still, but even so it doesn't seem like it would be certified by the govt in any eventuality. And, why would anyone in their right mind develop an entire design soup to nuts, before starting on the build? Then there'd be nothing to fix! And have the design looked at by a third party? They might send you back to square one after all that work! Better to get it 90% complete first.
 

cheapracer

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Is there no organization you have to go through in America to get your plane approved ?
Pretty much "no", which is actually a great thing. It's one of the few bastions of self design and self built vehicle left in the world.

It does allow some less than satisfactory items to slip through the cracks though, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
 

Marc Zeitlin

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Someone in the comments apparently said of the aileron link connecting bolt, that there was "too much thread showing" ..
The fix?: Add a thicker washer and use a wider nut, bahahaha! You couldn't write this stuff ... 😂🤣
Not everything that Peter does is wrong - blind squirrel, etc., and there's more than enough to beat him up about without doing so regarding things he gets right.

In this case, he switched from a shear nut to a tension nut. That's perfectly acceptable. He also put standard washers, rather than light washers, under the head of the bolt and the nut. This is an approved methodology, per AC43.13-1B, for ensuring that too many threads are not protruding from the nut - in fact, AC43.13-1B allows up to three washers for this exact purpose. It would also have been appropriate to use a shorter dash # bolt, but there was nothing wrong with what he did with the washers and nut.

And why is there SO much stuff to fix so late into the build of the aircraft?
All first articles of any new design (airplanes, defibrillators, cardiac catheterization systems, Intensive Care Unit monitors, Rockets, Spaceships, take your pick) need lots of modifications and fixes - that's the point of building a prototype - to find the issues that you missed during the design process. With this aircraft, however, there are far MORE than there could have been, had appropriate processes been followed during the design and build.

Did he not get the whole model reviewed before entering the production of the prototype ?
No. Peter had one structural engineer and one aerodynamic engineer. No design reviews with other engineers were performed.

Is there no organization you have to go through in America to get your plane approved ?
Only the FAA from a paperwork standpoint, and to make sure that the thing you're going to fly vaguely resembles an airplane. This is an Experimental R&D aircraft - it's not a Type Certificated aircraft, so has exactly zero engineering requirements from a regulatory standpoint.
 
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BBerson

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I agree with Marc. Excess threads are not a sufficient issue to beat him up over.
The next lower grip length may or may not have worked without being too short.
 

Doggzilla

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Not if you understand who knows their butt from a hot rock and to whom you should listen. Then it's very simple to get accurate information. No one is inventing cold fusion here - the answers are well understood by many.
Actually this is a perfect example of what I’m talking about.

A close friend of a relative is a project manager for a large aerospace company, and the number one major issue is his subordinates arrogance.

Nobody knows everything about aircraft. Nobody. Even the best engineers still work in teams because of this.

Every A&P and homebuilder screaming at him like they’re Kelly Johnson’s ghost infected with Tourette’s doesn’t help a thing.
 

Marc Zeitlin

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Actually this is a perfect example of what I’m talking about.
In what way?

A close friend of a relative is a project manager for a large aerospace company, and the number one major issue is his subordinates arrogance.
And I was a project manager for a large program in a small aerospace company. We had 33 engineers when I got there, and ~133 engineers when I left. There might have been a few who were overly optimistic about their own capabilities, but for the most part, everyone was competent, hard working, and understanding of their own limitations, with an excellent understanding of whom to go to when they had questions or doubts.

After 40 odd years being an engineer and managing engineers, I'll say that anyone who believes that the majority of the engineers working for them are arrogant know-it-alls is either incompetent themselves and unwilling to admit that they don't know everything that their employees know, or else they're extremely lousy at hiring people. There's no third choice. The best thing a manager can do is hire people smarter and more capable than they are, and that's what I always attempted to do, even when hiring kids right out of school.

Nobody knows everything about aircraft. Nobody. Even the best engineers still work in teams because of this.
Again, I can't tell what point you're trying to make here. Are you agreeing with my position, or disagreeing with it, or somewhere in between?

Every A&P and homebuilder screaming at him like they’re Kelly Johnson’s ghost infected with Tourette’s doesn’t help a thing.
The issue is not with the people addressing Peter, however they may be doing it. The issue is that he doesn't know which one of them he should be paying attention to. When Jim Tighe says something to me about aerodynamics, I pay attention, mostly because what he says will make sense and obey the laws of physics. When my mother says something about aerodynamics, not quite so much.
 

TarDevil

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A close friend of a relative is a project manager for a large aerospace company, and the number one major issue is his subordinates arrogance.
Oh I love these anecdotal stories....
"This guy who goes to the gym with my sister-in-law's boss's son's girlfriend knows a guy who talked to a pilot at a bar...AND stayed say a Holiday Inn Express, says he knows for a fact the 737 Max issue was a software virus started by Airbus!"

For the record, I have a few engineer friends. Nice guys.
 

BJC

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After 40 odd years being an engineer and managing engineers, I'll say that anyone who believes that the majority of the engineers working for them are arrogant know-it-alls is either incompetent themselves and unwilling to admit that they don't know everything that their employees know, or else they're extremely lousy at hiring people.
Well, Marc, you have at least one year more than I do (I retired early after 39 years of 3,000+ hours per year) but my experience fully supports what you wrote.


BJC
 

Hephaestus

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🤣 someone has to ask but did HR know the trick to hiring engineers?

You know checking if the shoes were velcro or lace ups?

Sorry, forgot this isn't a construction site for a second :dead: with love from the field :)
 

AdrianS

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OT, but one issue often crops up if the engineer(s) have been around a lot longer than the boss:
Boss has great new idea, or customer asks for something the boss thinks is a good idea;
Engineer has to say "we tried that on model xyz and it didn't work / didn't sell because [reasons]"

That doesn't mean we won't look at it again - but it can be a waste of time to keep trying to reinvent the wheel.
 

wsimpso1

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🤣 someone has to ask but did HR know the trick to hiring engineers?

You know checking if the shoes were velcro or lace ups?

Sorry, forgot this isn't a construction site for a second :dead: with love from the field :)
I don't get it. 37 plus years an engineer. My judgement on who to hire and who not to hire usually panned out. My shoes usually laced up. I know it ruins a joke to have to explain it, but this engineer needs this joke explained...

Billski
 

Hot Wings

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How do Nike self-lacing shoes alter the equation?

I'd probably opt for the guy with the Velcro.
I usually need to replace the laces on my shoes at least once before the shoe is un-serviceable. I've never seen a set of Velcro fail before the shoe.
Velcro shoes are cheaper to make and with fewer steps, quicker to put on and hardly ever come loose. Laces are also a potential tripping hazard.

Velcro advantages:
Simplicity of use
Less cost
Quicker to manufacture
More durable
Safer
Better fit - the tension can be adjusted at the points needed. Laces tend to creep.

So what is there for an engineer type not to like about Velcro laces? :confused:
 

Hephaestus

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I don't get it. 37 plus years an engineer. My judgement on who to hire and who not to hire usually panned out. My shoes usually laced up. I know it ruins a joke to have to explain it, but this engineer needs this joke explained...
Play on that socially / physically inept engineer stereotype.

Velcro shoes = can't tie shoes or that guy who grabs cheapest pair of shoes at Kmart because they're shoes they cover the feet and there's no other considerations to them (aesthetics)

So by hiring an engineer with laces... You're getting at least some skill and some social aptitude (even if it's simply not wearing runners to an interview)

Probably a stale non PC joke these days. Still a joke used semi regularly in the oil patch 😂
 

TFF

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Sounds like the differences Enzo Ferrari had with Welfrdo Ricart. Ricart walked around with thick rubber sole shoes presumably made from a pad workers stood on in front of machine tools. Ferrari asked him why do you wear those shoes? To keep this fine tuned brain from getting jarred. Ferrari always ready for a formal gathering, Ricart really not caring and playing a joke on rigidity.
 

Lendo

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TFF, Sounds interesting, why look for a rubber mat to stand on when you already have it stuck to your shoes :)
I think he may have suffered sore legs or feet.
George
 
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