Raptor Composite Aircraft

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

BBerson

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
13,092
Location
Port Townsend WA
That's debatable. I know of several fatal takeoff crashes from a fuel valve in off position.
Not sure if closing a fuel valve just before a crash has had any better or worse statistical outcome.
My Honda car has the ECU cut off the fuel pump when the engine is not running.
 

canardlover

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
47
Location
Canton, Ga USA
Yeah, a couple of articles in Sport Aviation also. Apparently self taught in aerodynamics and structures. I don't know if he had engineers on staff. It can be done by a persistent leader.
Danny,like myself ,was self taught in aero and structural principles. He had a strong background in high performance water craft. I as well have been immersed( no pun intended) in that world as well. My training ground was in model aviation ,having been instilled by my father( a gifted modeler and designer) with the desire to create new designs from scratch. And ,large or small, an airplane is still an airplane and subject to the same aerodynamic constraints and certain similar design considerations.
Due to aerodynamic and physics law in most cases it is harder to make a model fly well. This is proven by many failed or compromised attempts at scaling down real aircraft designs for radio controlled replicas. My first model design,with my father's aid,was accomplished at the age of 8 yrs old. Between my late father and I , we have produced well over a hundred different " aircraft designs. Most unusual and high performance of all descriptions. And I also pro built experimental full scale aircraft before attempting a full scale design of my own. Danny Maher is a good friend of mine and as pointed out got into ultralights for awhile,and also built two Long EZs before designing the Velocity. He had a strong Composite background,as do I. He also,like myself understands personal limitations in certain areas of expertise . Danny employed the aid of a gifted aero engineer by the name of Ted Yon. They both belonged to the EAA chapter in Merritt Island,Fl. Ted as well ,had built a Long Ez. Ted helped myself a little bit on my first design. The point is that Danny and myself,both highly creative and artistic,know when to do so and the importance of reaching outside when your experience or skill sets are not up to par for the task at hand. Not that you cant come up with a better method or design but at least seeking input from someone knowledgeable and experienced who at the very least can either establish or validate the current considered design or method as being a safe baseline level starting point at the very minimum. That is the difference here between the program involved in this thread and the Velocity or my past activity. We sought help from people who had the horsepower we lacked in certain areas and listened and employed it. Ego can be a great thing if kept in check and employed to motivate one to do better. Arrogance,however,can blind someone to the fact that they really aren't as capable as they believe or required by the task. Couple that with outside criticism, both valid and obscure, and the inate animal instinct to protect ones "baby" and their personal pride can quite effectively shut down any and all receptivity to accept constructive and superior technical input. Another important trait possessed by Danny Maher and myself is an insatiable appetite to do different things ,design wise,but most importantly seek to obtain the required information or assistance to educate ourselves to the level,or beyond,that which is required to successfully and impressively complete our goals. NUFF SAID !!
 

canardlover

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
47
Location
Canton, Ga USA
Sounds like you are asking for opinions here, so let me say that I think Raptor looks like a fat toad. And this is separated as much as possible from the truly grotesque "engineering" that simply can't help but seep into this engineer's opinion of the overall aesthetic.

Poor aesthetic, horrific execution, no hope of meeting performance specifications...

..."Gorgeous" it is not - this project has been distilled down to the very essence of the phrase "polishing a turd".
For the record,I DID NOT DESIGN THE RAPTOR. I did ,however ,have to correct lifting and stabilizing area values, incidence settings,and employ flow control devices to correct design deficiency issues discovered in the RC model test program.
Jeff
 

BBerson

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
13,092
Location
Port Townsend WA
Another important trait possessed by Danny Maher and myself is an insatiable appetite to do different things ,design wise,b
That gets the prototypes built. But I think the business of assembly line production often takes a different crew.
And yes, it's really hard to chop up your "baby". My brother still has a 40 year old unfinished concrete boat in his yard. I don't show my babies much, so easier to "recycle".
 

anvegger

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 6, 2015
Messages
520
Location
LACONIA NH USA
Sounds like you are asking for opinions here, so let me say that I think Raptor looks like a fat toad.
Not at all . Beauty is in eye of the beholder Some people (and a lot of them) like that plane even despite she has not flown . And any toad after just a small and gentle kiss has a right to become smth like a handsome prince don't you think?
 

anvegger

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 6, 2015
Messages
520
Location
LACONIA NH USA
The escrow account is set up and there are more than 1/3 (350+) of expected 1000 deposits are made.
We are talking in and out about this plane for more than 4 years by now. and we still have no idea why that is so unique to the event of our discussion. Interesting phenomenon and really cool place to identify the wisdom
 

cheapracer

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
6,051
Location
Australian
. And any toad after just a small and gentle kiss has a right to become like a handsome prince don't you think?
Did you see the movie 'Shrek', and a few other cartoons where the beautiful princess "kisses the toad" and she herself turns into a toad as well .....

It's a more accurate analogy here I believe.


I think a lot of interest can be explained by the slow motion train wreck metaphor.
My fascination with this build can be summed up with one word: "Disbelief".
 

Rod Schneider

Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
13
Location
Ball Ground, GA. About 40 miles north of Atlanta
Well, that and a bit of jealousy I think.
I'm not sure what there is to be jealous of. An airplane that hasn't flown, with an equally unproven, very complex, power plant, that weighs nearly 1,000 lbs more than the design target weight. With a lot of "fixes" that may or may not be proper, designed by a fellow who's favorite answer when questioned about potential issues is "its a prototype, I think it will be OK". And, first flight out of an airport that has no good place to go in the event of an engine failure shortly after takeoff. The train wreck metaphor is very accurate, unfortunately......... I just hope no one gets hurt.....
 

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
6,992
Location
Rocky Mountains
I'm not sure what there is to be jealous of.
The plane? Nothing there of which to be envious or jealous.
But the resources squandered?
I do feel a little jealous and would have to admit to tasting a bit of the sour grape. Just the cash raised in the last month via Go Fund Me would finance the tooling to put my AV-36 into kit production.
 

Doggzilla

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
2,288
Location
Everywhere USA
The reason he doesn’t listen is because he’s being told 20 different ways and has no idea which one is correct.

I find that even well proven topics are often full of overwhelming amounts of incredibly misleading BS.

Getting accurate information is like herding cats.
 

cheapracer

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
6,051
Location
Australian
The reason he doesn’t listen is because he’s being told 20 different ways and has no idea which one is correct.
It only takes but a few hours to confirm who is who offering the info, and what background they have. There are at least 2 prominent carbon fiber designers/manufacturers in this group with proven flying retail product for example, along with other prominent engineers/highly experienced 'hands on' with their own special fields that are relevant, and as I have mentioned a few times, the local EAA Chapter is never far away.

You have to want it though, and accept that sometimes other people actually know more than you do.
 

ScaleBirdsScott

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
1,222
Location
Uncasville, CT
There is a problem with seeking out constant advice which is even if there are knowledgeable experts, they can often have their mind made up, or will quickly arrive at a preferred solution and those are not always aligned with the direction of the project envisioned. One must be enough of an expert on what they want to be able to know whether the advice is going to help or not. Some of y'all are well practiced at it as well. But it's a fine line.

Then at the same time if every decision requires stopping to consult someone who knows more, the entire design process becomes very very Start. Stop. Start. Stop, redo, redo, redo. Second guess. Triple check. Go back. Skip it. Skip it. Bop it. Twist it. Going once. Going twice. Insufficient Funds. Our base is under attack. Engineering!? Affirmative! Yeah? Let's Rock! Start. Stop. Redo, redo...

That cyclic process is anyway unavoidable to some degree, especially at first when one simply has no significant experience to fall back on of their own. But by admitting to needing outside help often can put a person into a bit of, Analysis Paralysis Paranoid, who maybe can't feel comfortable relying on their own judgement for anything. In any case that whole process does turn what seems like it should be a quick project into a 5-year project. I can see why some would build a mental barrier where they prefer to avoid asking the experts and just choose their path, right or wrong. Sometimes it works out.
 
2
Top