Raptor Composite Aircraft

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Pilot-34

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. The traditional recipe of tight planes with expensive gasoline engines costing many dollars to be operated has not shown a great market result in the last few decades with countless manufacturers leaving the market.
In today’s era ever numbers in ever increasing sizes comfort ,the bare minimum comfort of enough space is certainly a key selling point.
 

cheapracer

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The latest video is another good lesson in not what to do when considering production'ising a product.

Look at the parts count, look at how many bespoke parts have been created and the multiple processes required to make them. The time required, and look at the amount of failure points he has created. This sidestick is a perfect example of what has been the entire approach to this vehicle.

Ironically his original sidestick design foundation was just fine, merely needing improvement, it's utterly bewildering how he could stray so far in the opposite direction.
 

Wild Bill

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I noticed that bearing housing made out of FR4. Doesn’t look like the best material to begin with. But then the wall was cut too thin.
But he used all the material. It will be fine???
 

BBerson

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Yeah, it isn't a production prototype, it's a research prototype. The actual production prototype might be number three or more. That should have been in the budget.
Musk has seven Starship research prototypes built and being built. The first four ships exploded.
It will take Raptor time to learn what doesn't work.
 

Kyle Boatright

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It will take Raptor time to learn what doesn't work.
Nothing on the Raptor is new under the sun. There are good engineering designs to solve any and all of the problems Peter has encountered. Too bad he didn't listen to the adults in the room when he started chasing this dream. If he'd listened, or even paid a few experts, he'd have saved a bunch of money and time and the first flight would be well behind him, as opposed to a mirage off in the distance that never gets closer.
 

BBerson

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It's all new to him. Without experience he doesn't know which experts to believe or which to follow and he has paid several. The boss needs to get to near the knowledge level of ALL these specialists to double check and verify. This is not much different than the Boeing CEO fiasco, just a smaller scale.
 

Kyle Boatright

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It's all new to him. Without experience he doesn't know which experts to believe or which to follow and he has paid several. The boss needs to get to near the knowledge level of ALL these specialists to double check and verify. This is not much different than the Boeing CEO fiasco, just a smaller scale.
There are dozens of experts (some on this board) who could have helped him avoid the traps he's built for himself. He even hired some help. But he didn't listen. That was apparently his biggest failing. He didn't listen.

It isn't like he was the guy at IBM who spent $1M back in the day trying and failing to build the first business computer. Nobody had ever done that before. He was breaking new ground. Peter isn't breaking new ground.

The guy at IBM eventually got his computer. At this point, I'm not sure the Raptor will ever be more than yard art.
 

BJC

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It isn't like he was the guy at IBM who spent $1M back in the day trying and failing to build the first business computer. Nobody had ever done that before. He was breaking new ground. Peter isn't breaking new ground.

The guy at IBM eventually got his computer. At this point, I'm not sure the Raptor will ever be more than yard art.
One of the team of 12 (IIRC) IBM employees who developed the first PC was a homebuilder. He built an RV - 6.


BJC
 

cblink.007

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In today’s era ever numbers in ever increasing sizes comfort ,the bare minimum comfort of enough space is certainly a key selling point.
Truth. Having enough room for two 6'2" 250lb adults was a mandate when designing my bird! My fit 5'11" 179lb frame can barely squeeze into a C152!!
 

cheapracer

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In today’s era ever numbers in ever increasing sizes comfort ,the bare minimum comfort of enough space is certainly a key selling point.
Yes it is, but on the other hand, physics hasn't changed. The energy required to push 'X' frontal and surface area through the air is the same as it was when people were 6" shorter and skinnier. A suitable balance needs to be found, quarters given, that doesn't mean you build a SUV sized and weight craft and expect it to perform well.


Yeah, it isn't a production prototype, it's a research prototype.
That's not an excuse for being wildly off realistic weights and poor design executions.

The actual production prototype might be number three or more.
Yes, as people have mentioned many times, certainly there will be a scratch built #2 required to iron out the weight and whatever other issues need addressing, if not a number 3.

Question is, does he understand that - I don't think he entertains that thought, and will go straight into retail production with the "I'm happy with that" changes instigated as they go, eyeballed and untested.

eg: Proto #2 will be the first retail kit.
 

BBerson

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The designer of the Velocity owned a composite production company, I think.
The Raptor doesn't seem to have any facility or production experience.
 

anvegger

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Nothing on the Raptor is new under the sun.
Yes you are right and NO your assumption is incomplete. Everything with this project is new with exception of ... an aircraft. There are a few outstanding things that might be not new at all. First of all - exposure. Hundreds , no: thousands of people around the world are supporting that project - the amount of money raised in just three days is outspoken, the communities (not one or two) several communities have been organized around this project. This is truly people's work and some people are thinking that Peter does not listen. It is not true - he does. His mind is set up differently . And he has his rights to stay where he is staying today . Raptor always have been and always will be his baby. Jeff has helped a lot but even Jeff knows that Peter has his personal life and that life is the Raptor. In that "Russian Forum" with lots of criticism and "Nayers" people still curious of that project and the reason is simple: curiosity - is it really that simple to eat an elephant ? The baby is looking good and a lot of people like that baby. She is crippled a bit she has not flown yet but is not she gorgeous and parents can be proud of her look? Especially Jeff (Many complements to his art of making that baby stylish )
 

cblink.007

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The designer of the Velocity owned a composite production company, I think.
The Raptor doesn't seem to have any facility or production experience.
If memory serves, Danny Maher has a background in chemical engineering and boat building/racing...and was doing ultralights before he did his first Velocity prototype.

 

BBerson

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If memory serves, Danny Maher has a background in chemical engineering and boat building/racing...and was doing ultralights before he did his first Velocity prototype.

Yeah, a couple of articles in Sport Aviation also. Apparently self taught in aerodynamics and structures. I don't know if he had engineers on staff. It can be done by a persistent leader.
 

BBerson

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More of a common sense item..
That's debatable. I know of several fatal takeoff crashes from a fuel valve in off position.
Not sure if closing a fuel valve just before a crash has had any better or worse statistical outcome.
 

Toobuilder

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...The baby is looking good and a lot of people like that baby. She is crippled a bit she has not flown yet but is not she gorgeous and parents can be proud of her look?...
Sounds like you are asking for opinions here, so let me say that I think Raptor looks like a fat toad. And this is separated as much as possible from the truly grotesque "engineering" that simply can't help but seep into this engineer's opinion of the overall aesthetic.

Poor aesthetic, horrific execution, no hope of meeting performance specifications...

..."Gorgeous" it is not - this project has been distilled down to the very essence of the phrase "polishing a turd".
 
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