Raptor Composite Aircraft

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
4,564
Location
US
You do know that you have to pay in full before the prototype is designed?
I think maybe be just 10% up front. Full payment would be due once the milestone event is accomplished.

The milestone event would turn out to be: The check for the 10% deposit clears the bank.
 

FarmBoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
129
Location
Gainesville, VA
The $100,000 recieved on Kickstarter, and numbers of them quite unhappy they didn't even recieved their mugs or TShirts (whatever) at the time, don't know if they have or not now.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/launchsynergy/synergy-aircraft-project
Untried design, 5 seater, new type diesel engine, hmmm, I've heard all this somewhere else ...
While unsubstantiated for Synergy, the greatest similarities I see are the detracting comments. 6 seat not 5, won't likely fly before the DeltaHawk engine is FULLY tested and receives its engine certification which (yes after years of waiting) will actually happen now that the newly redesigned engine has solved the piston wrist pin (largest issue) and other design refinement issues holding them up. And the FWB package is somewhere between 400-500lbs (not 1,000)! Unlike Raptor, Synergy also weighs every part and was on target to their design weight the last time I asked (over a year ago).

Is your claim above first hand knowledge or hearsay? I actually received my shirts (and hats) and though I don't know why I elected to get some stamps at some point, I received them as well (at the time figured they were at least worth the residual postage value as well as potential future collector or novelty value). Given the number of undelivered (especially USPS) packages to my home I would chalk that up as much as anything for any unreceived items. And I have never heard of Synergy not following through to anyone who contacted them directly. And a fraction supposedly undelivered t-shirts and coffee mugs does not equal $2.7M in REAL deposits for an aircraft - not a coffee mug!

Until such time as is proven otherwise, I am happy to put my Synergy pin (that I picked up at Oshkosh several years ago) on one of my hats (if I can find either of them) - I figure if Dick Rutan wasn't afraid of putting a Synergy pin in his hat, neither am I.
 

GotWake

New Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Messages
2
I think maybe be just 10% up front. Full payment would be due once the milestone event is accomplished.

The milestone event would turn out to be: The check for the 10% deposit clears the bank.
Outside of the guys that locked in their price by putting down $20k. You had the first bunch that put $3000 in escrow and the 2nd wave that had to put $2000 into escrow. Once this thing flies, he will request to have the escrows released. You don't have to pay more until they get to your build. I think he is doing everything he can just to get this in the air and make some promises if/when it doesn't make the numbers to get people to agree to release the escrows. You are right about the milestone event being vague. So, there's another $3 million for him to play with if he can get the escrows.

Oh, I'm new here. I've been lurking for a while. I've been planning on building a RV-10 starting next year. I will say that the lure of the Raptor project did draw me into the experimental side though. Watching this project has been interesting.
 

FarmBoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
129
Location
Gainesville, VA
Why is it all "Outside the Box"? Why is so much being tackled from scratch, just as the Raptor is?

It was an aerodynamic concept offered, then why not start just with that and prove it?

Build a 2 seater 0-320 powered model, which itself would take the market by storm if it worked, I could see people lining up for that one, use the profit to further develop, but no, lets go straight to a 5 seater with all the fruit including an unproven diesel concept, and water cooled just to add to the hardship. Magnitudes more difficult than a standard'ised, and very marketable, 2 seater.

And then there's the magnitude difference of producing a standard'ised 2 seater Vs 5 seater with all the fruit. These guys are simply not thinking ahead, and seem oblivious to the task ahead of them, not to mention the finances involved ...

Same advice as people gave to the Raptor guy.

Anyway, all too depressing, back to my 200 knot, 3 GPH, 6 seat, $4,999 build.
Where did I say all? That said (at least for all of the examples cited), the engine cooling ducting entry via wing root with split cooling for IC, oil cooler, and radiator certainly qualifies. The short as I have ever seen (cool side turbo outlet less than 1ft to IC directly back up to duct directly into [normally bypassed] supercharger) engine forced induction/IC path (you have to perceptively realize where the IC, not yet pictured, will go) is brilliant along with the exhaust and cooling duct rear exits. And the CG centered, engineered for ease of access electronics placement (alongside of which will also be large CG-centered luggage areas) is a stroke of genius. The question is why not tackle things from scratch that have been so poorly designed in most aircraft? And the relatively short path, rod driven (stick not yoke) flight controls (moveable left, right, center) looks quite exceptional.

Last I checked the aero concepts have been checked with up to 1/3 scale models and lots of CFD. If you have such a concept that will take the market by storm, build it - don't just bad mouth someone else that is slowly and steadily building a prototype in their garage intending to prove it BEFOREHAND to help ensure the required finances will come (unlike Raptor). And they are thinking ahead, again, if you look closely, you can see (and could have checked it out at Oshkosh as well) that they have built a fully functional flight sim using mechanically and functionally equivalent Synergy flight controls. When the aircraft does come out, tell me what flight school wouldn't want a 3 pilotable seat aircraft and flight sim? Unlike Raptor, Synergy is just taking their time, doing the math, and completing exceptionally thorough engineering before finishing the build.

And again, unlike Raptor, it has both EGT and CHT sensors for each cylinder:
 
Last edited:

cheapracer

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
5,950
Location
Australian
While unsubstantiated for Synergy,

Is your claim above first hand knowledge or hearsay? I actually received my shirts (and hats)

And a fraction supposedly undelivered t-shirts and coffee mugs does not equal $2.7M in REAL deposits for an aircraft - not a coffee mug!

Until such time as is proven otherwise, I am happy to put my Synergy pin
My issue with Synergy is taking $100,000 to prove an aerodynamic phenonemen, then meandering off on all sorts of tangents, the DeltHawk being one of them, and not following the most direct route to honour those who donated.

2012 or 2013: "We have to complete the entire project in less than a year to maintain our preferred timeline,"

C'mon, delays are inevitable, everybody knows that every one of these project time's blow out, but 7 years ...

The spit over the shirts and hats was very real, and Mr Synergy was quite obnoxious in his responses.

But you are correct, there is a big difference in asking for donations towards a project, and taking money en masse when it's impossible, and one must know that it is impossible, to fullfill those orders as Raptor has done.

Still the public is out $100,000 for the moment, with no sight in end while the creator waddles along building his dream plane rather than proving the concept, and the project seems to have gained substantial new premises, that I would have to logically assume was paid for with at least some of the donated $100,000. I believe that 100% of those donations should be directed at completing the craft.

Anyway, I need to get back to mine, my plane that ligitimately has more headroom than a Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning, these threads are too depressing.
 
Last edited:

cheapracer

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
5,950
Location
Australian
And they are thinking ahead, again, if you look closely, you can see (and could have checked it out at Oshkosh as well) that they have built a fully functional flight sim using mechanically and functionally equivalent Synergy flight controls. When the aircraft does come out, tell me what flight school wouldn't want a 3 pilotable seat aircraft and flight sim?
Oh bollocks, that time and money could have gone into the plane that the donors donated for, not some new factory and a flight simulator.

I was half with you until I read this wayward, apologist position for yourself and the project, don't want to read your nonsense anymore, bye bye.
 
Last edited:

flyrite

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
50
Location
lyons, ga. in the usa
Anyway, I need to get back to mine, my plane that ligitimately has more headroom than a Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning, these threads are too depressing.
Dam Son, I’s wondering when you have time to build on anything. Seems you and several others spend all your time trying to find holes in some other projects, Under the self appointed auspicious of being the ‘Know all, End all’ of aircraft design!
I don’t have **** invested or even know Peter. Found his project through this thread. But it’s keyboardist spert’s like your self that makes a lot of these threads depressing!
 

FarmBoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
129
Location
Gainesville, VA
My issue with Synergy is taking $100,000 to prove an aerodynamic phenonemen, then meandering off on all sorts of tangents, the DeltHawk being one of them, and not following the most direct route to honour those who donated.

2012 or 2013: "We have to complete the entire project in less than a year to maintain our preferred timeline,"

C'mon, delays are inevitable, everybody knows that every one of these project time's blow out, but 7 years ...

The spit over the shirts and hats was very real, and Mr Synergy was quite obnoxious in his responses.

But you are correct, there is a big difference in asking for donations towards a project, and taking money en masse when it's impossible, and one must know that it is impossible, to fullfill those orders as Raptor has done.

Still the public is out $100,000 for the moment, with no sight in end while the creator waddles along building his dream plane rather than proving the concept, and the project seems to have gained substantial new premises, that I would have to logically assume was paid for with at least some of the donated $100,000. I believe that 100% of those donations should be directed at completing the craft.

Anyway, I need to get back to mine, my plane that ligitimately has more headroom than a Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning, these threads are too depressing.
Delayed, absolutely. Who says this isn't the most direct route given available resources?

And who says donations weren't honored? Though late, to the best of my knowledge the shirts, hats, mugs, etc. were delivered (i.e. what the contributors knew they were going to receive at their homes in exchange for their contributions was provided). So your insinuation that the public is out $100K is at a minimum greatly exaggerated if not completely baseless. I just went back and read the responses and, IMO, your inference is again baseless - the essence of all that I read were "apologies for the delay", or "please provide your size and shipping address". While annoying, it's better than many KickStarters where nothing was delivered at all.

Your further insinuations are also baseless. From what I understand, the new "premises" is largely paid for by the founder's real business, MC Squared Design, to 'keep the lights on' for Synergy until they complete the prototype since he still has a family and himself to support. So, in essence, more than 100% of donations has been directed into completing the craft, which, BTW, is 'waddling' its way to a superbly designed, engineered, and constructed aircraft that I believe will more than surprise many as early as next year. As an engineer and program manager, I believe Synergy is doing everything it can to avoid a "if you want it bad, you'll get it bad" result and holding to the tenant of cost, schedule, or technical balance of which being constrained by cost uses the only thing available to ensure the technical outcome doesn't suffer - schedule. I'm happy to wait for a superb aircraft rather than see a duplication of Raptor's schedule rush driving poor design decisions.
 

FarmBoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
129
Location
Gainesville, VA
Oh bollocks, that time and money could have gone into the plane that the donors donated for, not some new factory and a flight simulator.

I was half with you until I read this wayward, apologist position for yourself and the project, don't want to read your nonsense anymore, bye bye.
Oh, you mean like the time and money going into a design for something that would actually help the project both succeed and provide a great method for donors to learn to fly one?

Does calling my statements wayward immediately make yours factual? While it will take time, I am confident that my statements will be supported by history.
 
Last edited:
2
Group Builder
Top