Qualifying a Experimental built from Parts ?

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wsimpso1

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Because it seems like there are a lot of kits out there that are nearly finished as you say and very inexpensive.
There are parts of several kits I like while not liking the complete aircraft.
Why not just use the parts I like ?
Because they may not fit together. Seriously, make certain the pieces will go together before opening your wallet.
 

Pilot-34

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Ok no laughing what I’d really like to do is graft a widened sportsman 2+2 to a Big float with a pylon mounted engine.

The original idea was widened tripacer built into a Anderson king fisher but I don’t think there’s any way I could use all those certified airplane parts but strangely enough I can get the same stuff out of experimental kit and I think that will be ok.
 

Jim Chuk

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I believe that what ever the DAR signs off, the FAA will agree with. Probably not ever look at it other then put it into their records. That being said, I would discuss this with the DAR you intend to use to get the airworthyness certificate. And one of the boxes on the FAA form you file for registration has a box you can check that says 'built from parts' JImChuk
 

tallank

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Ok I’m pretty clear I can’t use certified parts in a home built
But
What about experimental parts ?
For instance if I bought a finished fuselage from one guy and finished wings from another a dash from a third and firewall forward from another could I put it all together and get it signed off ?
Could I get a repairman certificate for it ?
Why do you think you can not use certified parts on a homebuilt? Engine / Prop for instance.
 

Zvenoman

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Why do you think you can not use certified parts on a homebuilt? Engine / Prop for instance.
Agreed. My EAB (Spacewalker II) is being built with hardware from aircraft suppliers, aircraft grade material where applicable, and will use an engine that was probably certified at one time. Avionics, covering; most will be certified as well.
JH
 

PagoBay

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To get an E-A/B repairman certificate you simply have to show that you were the "primary" builder (term is not defined) and you have the knowledge to properly inspect the plane. Technically, the primary builder does not have to build a single part.
This is correct. EAA clubs or other groups that build an E-AB as a project just choose any person on the team that has the requisite knowledge of the aircraft. Does not matter what work they did while a part of the build team.
 

PagoBay

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Just to clarify since it’s kinda came up several times here.
The way I understand the amateur built class a amateur has to do 51% of the TASKS not 51% of the work right ?
Correct. The test is not based on how much time the Factory or the Builder needed to complete each task. Each task, if applicable to the kit, gets a point. Each point can be less than a full point if the task is being divided between Manufacturer, Commercial Assistance, Builder Assembly and Builder Fabrication. Even 50.01% is a "major portion" which is the actual term that guides the decision. For non-approved kits, the Builder presents the completed list to the DAR, or at least is supposed to do so. For FAA NKET Team Approved Manufacturer task lists, most of which allow for some Commercial Assistance, see here: https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/ultralights/amateur_built/kits/nket_list/
Check out Chip Erwin's Merlin, second on the list. Manufacturer has 48.99% leaving 51.01% for Builder Assembly and Fabrication.
 
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Markproa

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Buying two unfinished projects and sticking them together does not sound like a good way to save time. I've bought two unfinished projects in my life and believe me it's not easy to proceed where someone else left off. The likleyhood of finding two projects whos progress compliment each other is very slim. And an enormous amount of build time and effort goes into firewall forward, instrument panel and control systems. Building the wings and fuselage is the easy bit.
 

mcrae0104

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Built2Fly

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My understanding is that an EAB project can pass through multiple builders. As long as the total construction done by amateurs is above 51% you are good (of course you will need to have the builder's log to prove it).

It is also my reading that the repairman's certificate is issued to the last builder who submitted the application (regardless of how much work he does). If the previous guys did most of the work and passed it on to me, I only pulled the last rivet to put it all complete and submitted the application, I am the one who got the repairman's certificate.
 

Turd Ferguson

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I only pulled the last rivet to put it all complete and submitted the application, I am the one who got the repairman's certificate.
Maybe. If they follow the guidance, you'll have to show you have the requisite knowledge of the aircraft and skills to inspect it. If you don't know anything about it except where the last rivet went, probably no.
 

Jim Chuk

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A friend of mine got the repairman's certificate on his Avid Flyer after he finished it. When he got the plane, it was covered and the UV blocker was sprayed on. No finish paint, panel, wiring, or motor. He had to interview with the FSDO for the repairman's cert. The FAA guy wasn't going to give it to him, and then they got talking about what other planes and stuff he had worked on. He had quite a bit of experience with rebuilding a few gyrocopters. The FAA guy changed his mind and he got the repairman's cert. As I said in my earlier reply though, figure out what DAR you will use and ask his opinion. He is the guy that will say yes or no in the end. If 50 people on this site say no, and he says yes, it will be yes. Just be completely straight forward with him, cause if you surprise him in the end, it may not end well. That's my 2 cents worth, maybe 3 taking inflation into account. :) JImChuk
 

pfarber

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Maybe. If they follow the guidance, you'll have to show you have the requisite knowledge of the aircraft and skills to inspect it. If you don't know anything about it except where the last rivet went, probably no.
Ever read the Repairmans Certificates app and FAR 61.104

Yet the RP certificate is a paper you simply mail to the FSDO. We assume that the FSDO would call the DAR and ask.. but I doubt that actually happens.

If you have an A&P the repairman cert is a good idea, and you can easily meet the 'requisite skills'... and since the FAA has no legal definition of 'primary builder' its up to you to put on a good show for the DAR.
If you're suggesting that combining and completing two unfinished projects does not constitute an amateur-built aircraft, you missed the plural form of "builder(s)" in the reference you cited.
OP is talking about certified parts, not two kits. My BD has no less that 5 owners that I could track down. And its still never flown!

Now if I were to go out and buy a pair of 172 wings and bolt them on, the DAR should have some questions.
 

One Sky Dog

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51% rule is to determine kit eligibility for amateur built. Parts must be built by amateurs not professional shops. If both planes were built by amateur builders and you finish one by combining two it still qualifies as amateurs. Primary builder is whoever owns the pieces and is free to hire a DAR ( who works for you!) to put the paperwork package together to submit to the FSDO.
 

Pilot-34

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It’s about doing tasks so if I have most Of a Cessna wing and I have to fabricate a rib and a wing skin and install a fuel tank and run control cables and build fabricate and mound ailerons and flaps Won’t I get points for all of those tasks
 

rv7charlie

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There's an advisory circular that covers all this stuff. Pretty sure that if you read it, it will tell you that if you start with a 'major assembly' (wing, fuselage, etc) that is from a certified a/c, you get zero credit for that assembly, even if you totally tear it apart and rebuild it. That is a 'repair', not fabrication/assembly. Good example would be the 'Badlands Traveler'; a homebuilt Super Cub with Cessna 172 wings. Builder had built another homebuilt Super Cub with C152 wings prior to the Traveler. My understanding is that he worked with his FSDO, and was able to get Homebuilt Experimental certs for both, by building *everything* except the wings.
 
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