Promethious 3 Revolution

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Little Scrapper

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Not my cup of tea but figured you composite guys would enjoy this.

Skip Stewart, Eddie Saurenman & Netherlands company- Orange Aircraft designed and are building a composite biplane called Promethious 3 Revolution.

No wood.
No Tubing.
No Flying Wires.

The fuselage & wing weigh 300 pounds.

Enjoy.
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TFF

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Thats the first pics of real pieces I have seen. Skip is local to me. It will be a party when its done and shows up.
 

Topaz

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The "regular" biplane crowd is going to have kittens. "BIPLANES SHOULD BE TUBE AND WOOD!!!!"

From the size of the rudder and the filled-in struts, I'm guessing this is intended as an aerobat?
 

Little Scrapper

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The "regular" biplane crowd is going to have kittens. "BIPLANES SHOULD BE TUBE AND WOOD!!!!"

From the size of the rudder and the filled-in struts, I'm guessing this is intended as an aerobat?
I don't know. Composites are the furthest thing possible from my skill set. I appreciate it, think it's neat etc.

From my perspective I have to ask why? A biplane, in my opinion, isn't efficient. So why a composite biplane? Will.it spin faster? Do tricks better? Or is this a marketing matter to stay relevant?

I don't think Skip is looking for a cross country cruiser so that's why I wonder why this? If it was for CC you probably would want a single wing.

Again, 300 pounds seems high.
 

TFF

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What he did essentially was made a man size RC Pattern biplane. Side view does not do it for me, it looks more like a pylon racer, but because he wants to do neg 10 G maneuvers at 200 mph 100 ft above the ground, he needed a breakthrough airplane. 300 lb airframe plus the weight of a 400 hp Lycoming and some paint is a mean mother. I think the plan is a lot of zero airspeed tumbles and hovers and be able to just fly away vertically like a RC plane. Not elegant but impressive.
 

Autodidact

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Biplanes should be tube and wood. But for way too long, they have pretty much only been tube and wood. Why not a carbon fiber biplane? It's a thing. Biplane is a way to do an airplane and has certain advantages.
 

Little Scrapper

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I'm not for or against it, I'm just trying to figure out why. I'd love to learn how to make a cowl of this quality though, pretty darn neat.
 

lr27

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When I see a design like this, my immediate thought is air racing, though eventually I'd get around to noticing the extra features for aerobatics. When I hear a name like "Prometheus 3 Revolution", my immediate thought is the primacy of marketing over function. Regarding the paint scheme, what were they thinking? Also, how do you preserve laminar flow over all the logos?

Shouldn't the interplane struts be straight up and down? My guess is that it might make aligning maneuvers a little easier.

Still, I suppose it should make for some fun and spectacular flying if they've done it right. And maybe bleeding eyeballs.
 

BJC

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From the size of the rudder and the filled-in struts, I'm guessing this is intended as an aerobat?
Yes, it is intended to be an extreme airshow airplane. Skip is one of the top airshow pilots flying today. His current airplane is a knock-off Wolf Pro, which is Steve Wolf's evolution of a Pitts S-2S. See https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C3DQ9rcLBXE


BJC
 

TFF

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Motivation for Skip is he wants to be better than Sean Tucker. Different styles and different shows but that's his motivation. He has been working at it for at least 15 years. He is a nice guy too. He also built one of the coolest Tailwinds until someone offered a bunch of money for it and proceeded to wreck it. See a aerobatic notam at his airport all the time.
 

Little Scrapper

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To say one is better than the other is quite subjective. In my opinion Skip is more fun to watch.
 

wsimpso1

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Let's try to remember that he will carry 700 pounds on the nose and one person and a little fuel at say 12 g design loads while Scrapper is probably used to lighter engines and less g's. How to do that....

Here is my scheme. The airframe makes the aerobatic flying weight times its design g's. So a simple metric for an airplane might be pounds of airframe per pound of lift, Lower is better.

I do notknow the airframe weight of an Extra 330, but I know my bird. 2150 lbs and 6 gs and an airframe weight around 350 is 0.027 pound of airframe per pound of lift in fiberglass. The new carbon bipe at 1500lb at 12 gs and airframe of 300 is 0.017 pound of airframe. It should be lower than my bird because it will have little in the way of creature comfort and is carbon while mine is glass. Does not sound too bad.

Anyone know what a Pitts or Cristen Eagle weighs with people, fuel, and powerplant? How about the Extra 330? I know a couple guys who might...

Billski
 

TFF

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Extra 330 empty 1,450 lb; 10g single pilot 1,800 lb. Gs go down as you fill it up; obviously. Essentially Skip has doubled the airframe Gs of a regular aerobatic biplane.

Skip is looking for his signature and at some point Sean will retire. Sean Tucker is 65 and Skip is late 40s. Sean's is prettier and Skip's is crazier. I think Skip would be doing something else if there was no Sean to chase.
 

Wild Bill

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Skip is a cool guy.
Im watching this P3 project with anticipation. If the RC model is any indication the full scale should fly fast, have a high roll rate, will probably spin like crazy. I don't really see why the design needs so much rudder. It looks WAY oversize at a glance but I certainly dont have any qualifications to armchair scruitinize the design. Ive watched Sean and Skip fly at numerous airshows. Me personally I like the low level stuff. Sean doesnt do a lot of that at least at the shows ive been to. I always thought Jim LeRoy had the best airshow routine. He would push out inverted right on the deck after a series of outside snaps. I was always super impressed with how low he took manuevers. Of course he got killed doing low level acro so...
Skip has a good routine and his sort of signature thing is low level knifeedge passes.
Will be cool to see the P3 in action. Skip talks about the P3 in this video. http://youtu.be/fVYMagrVi_s
 
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