Prize Money

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by jedi, Jan 27, 2018.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Mar 28, 2018 #241

    manolis

    manolis

    manolis

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    17
    Hello Victor Bravo

    You write:
    "Although all of this has misled many, it is still possible that Boeing legitimately hoped that some inventor could develop a personal flying machine that would safely carry one person for 20 miles, and still fit into the small/quiet parameters of their competition. It is completely possible that this was their "goal" as is written on their page.

    The fact that their "requirements" are not as stringent as their goal clearly tells me that they are well aware that their "goal" was too optimistic."



    Things are different.

    If you read the Flying Demonstration (go directly to 2.2. of Rules and Guidelines),
    they will not measure the range (the total points for the range are exactly ZERO),
    and the contestants must complete their demonstration into 20 minutes.

    To make 20 miles into 20 minutes (1/3 of an hour) you need an average speed of 60mph (52kts).

    The average speed threshold during the six rounds around two pylons arranged half a nmi from each other, is only 30kts.

    The winner is quite possible to be a very quiet (50% of the points), very compact (40% of the points) and very slow personal portable flyer (the average speed around the pylons counts for only 10% of the points).



    It is like the fear the range.
    The 20 miles range is only for their dreams (aspirational GoFly vision!)

    This is what I am trying to explain to them.

    And you all, as members of the home-built-airplanes forum, know what a serious problem an extremely short range (like 7 miles or even like 20 miles) is or can be.


    The strange thing is that BOEING is not commanding GoFly to adjust their rules to reality and to the common sense.


    No matter how quiet or small a Personal Flying Device is, no matter how many million dollars in prizes it won, if its range is only 7 miles it is useless for most applications.


    Thanks
    Manolis Pattakos
     
  2. Mar 28, 2018 #242

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,289
    Likes Received:
    6,059
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    Why do you keep asking us the same question over an over? Email them yourself.


    BJC
     
  3. Mar 28, 2018 #243

    manolis

    manolis

    manolis

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    17
  4. Mar 28, 2018 #244

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,289
    Likes Received:
    6,059
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
  5. Mar 28, 2018 #245

    manolis

    manolis

    manolis

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    17
    Hello BJC

    You write:
    "That is a discussion forum. You might try their email address, gofly@launchsquad.com "


    What is the difference between what you got in private, than what I got in public?

    It looks like they e-mailed you a copy (cut and paste) of their reply-post to me in the forum.


    If they take the same question from many, they may think about it.

    Thanks
    Manolis Pattakos
     
  6. Mar 28, 2018 #246

    TFF

    TFF

    TFF

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,408
    Likes Received:
    3,159
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Rules change? The contest is a publicity stunt. Ever sense the beginning of time these things are stunts. If there is really a good idea in the mix Boeing will have first crack at the technology. More likely, they are just testing the waters to see if their ideas are better or worse than the outside world. Personal belief, exposed blades will not be allowed to win. To 1950's. To dangerous in a crowd. They want magic.
     
  7. Mar 28, 2018 #247

    DangerZone

    DangerZone

    DangerZone

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,107
    Likes Received:
    369
    Location:
    Zagreb HR
    Does it have to be VTOL? Maybe I missed something, but I got the impression they had a vague description/goal (as in 'not a requirement' kind of thing) like 'almost VTOL'. :D

    In other words, even hobby MOTAs could apply, like the one in the following video.
    [video=youtube;C_CukSzts_Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_CukSzts_Y[/video]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2019
  8. Mar 28, 2018 #248

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    5,861
    Likes Received:
    4,694
    Location:
    KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
    Unfortunately you are still not understanding the very high probability that Boeing is not interested in common sense, technical feasibility, or whether their rules make sense. They are also very likely to not be interested in hearing any opinions from the public, especially a group of experienced aircraft enthusiasts like HBA.

    The reason for this is that (in my opinion) Boeing's GoFly competition is nothing more than a publicity and marketing endeavor.

    Imagine that Boeing has been watching Red Bull's Flugtag event for years, and has decideed that they should have some sort of event to generate similar publicity. Or imagine Boeing wants to use the huge public interest in Red Bull Flugtag as a model to get more young inventors and technical people interested in working for Boeing.

    But Boeing cannot allow itself to appear whimsical like the Flugtag event, so the "event" must be seen as something more scientific or more serious, even though the actual goal is to attract people instead of creating an viable flying machine.

    If you look at it from this perspective, perhaps you can see the answer to the questions and mysterious rules of the contest.

    Now, we happen to have one or two people on this forum who might know a bit more about Boeing from a slightly more informed perspective. It is definitely not my place to address these people directly, but it is fair to say that we would all like to know their opinion of what Boeing's underlying goal is for this competition.
     
    flyboy2160 and DangerZone like this.
  9. Mar 28, 2018 #249

    flyboy2160

    flyboy2160

    flyboy2160

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2014
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    california, USA
    Agreed. After working at 4 big aerospace companies, I'd add some other factors: PC and unearned environmental and success guilt.

    These places are so overrun with PC, they need to salve their PC, egalitarian, and Green guilt with hair brained schemes the internal PC cheerleaders float. They don't have the intellectual ammunition to see that their regular products, provided by their regular engineering and commerce, provide great benefits.
     
    BJC likes this.
  10. Mar 29, 2018 #250

    okeydokey

    okeydokey

    okeydokey

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Florence, italy
    Firstly I don't think they expect anyone to fully satisfy the goal, and is an effort to make the competition seem to push more boundaries. This pretty evident in the difference between the goal of 20 miles and the actual length of the test course being only six. Read the rules and realize that the best design will win, and it will most likely not satisfy the goals of the competition. All you have to do is build something that is better than everybody elses.

    On another note, If you win in phase one do you have to continue to the next phase to keep the money?
     
  11. Mar 29, 2018 #251

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,400
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    Location:
    North Carolina
    So it can win, even if it's too big, too noisy and has inadequate range?
     
  12. Mar 29, 2018 #252

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,400
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    Location:
    North Carolina
    C'mon Boeing, give me an easier target, eg. 'fly a 103 over Everest'.
    'Rules' that may or may not be compulsory in order to win really grate with my inner grammar Nazi.
     
  13. Mar 29, 2018 #253

    okeydokey

    okeydokey

    okeydokey

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Florence, italy
    sure, as long as it theoretically is small enough, quiet enough and goes far enough. atleast for phase 1 :)
     
  14. Apr 19, 2018 #254

    jedi

    jedi

    jedi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    383
    Location:
    Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
    Already been done.

    Now that Phase I is closed. Anyone have info on numbers of applicants or other comments.
     
  15. Apr 20, 2018 #255

    manolis

    manolis

    manolis

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    17

    Hello Jedi.

    Quote from http://goflyprize.com/news/gofly-celebrates-phase-i-submissions/

    "Congratulations to all our innovators and teams for your submissions in Phase I of the GoFly challenge! Over 600 Innovators from over 30 countries across 6 continents have submitted their designs. Your technical prowess and enthusiasm to change the world are evident in your entries, which our team looks forward to reviewing in greater detail in the coming weeks. This exciting moment marks the first step in our collective mission to revolutionize flight, transportation, and the world as we know it!"


    It seems that even from Antartica (the South Pole) are competing in the GoFly.

    GoFly should announce the number of applications, not the number of innovators (an application, i.e. a design, can have dozens of innovators).

    Thanks
    Manolis Pattakos
     
  16. Apr 20, 2018 #256

    jedi

    jedi

    jedi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    383
    Location:
    Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
    Manolis,

    Did you submit?
     
  17. Apr 20, 2018 #257

    manolis

    manolis

    manolis

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    17
  18. Apr 20, 2018 #258

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    5,861
    Likes Received:
    4,694
    Location:
    KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
    If there is a prize for sheer volume of device graphics, we have a definite winner.
     
    pictsidhe and BJC like this.
  19. Apr 20, 2018 #259

    jedi

    jedi

    jedi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    383
    Location:
    Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
    Manolis,

    Thanks for the links. I wish you luck and success.

    I did not submit for reasons listed on this site.

    I noted the high noise penalty and posted a ducted fan configuration to reduce the noise footprint on the EAA.org web site UL Discussion Forum while the HBA site was down. That proposal is suitable for electric power but could also be powered by four of your units producing 20 + hp each.

    Consider that you have my assistance whenever appropriate.
     
  20. Apr 21, 2018 #260

    mcrae0104

    mcrae0104

    mcrae0104

    Armchair Mafia Conspirator HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,936
    Likes Received:
    1,937
    Location:
    BDU, BJC
    He may have a test pilot position available. Hopefully it pays very, very well.
     
    BJC likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white