Plans for De Havilland Beaver, Nooduyn Norseman or similar

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Dan Thomas

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Sep 17, 2008
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7,349
You mean to tell me Aluminum expands at twice the rate of steel irrespective of what alloy or composition or silicon content there is? And as for the Orenda 600, I don't see how you can compare an automotive engine that was converted for aviation use vs a purpose designed aircraft piston engine. The duty cycles are entirely different and one can't possibly expect the converted engine to have the same "life" as an aircraft piston engine.
There is such a thing as the Coefficient of Linear Thermal Expansion. How much a metal expands or contracts per degree of temperature change. Look at this list and see if you can find an aluminum alloy that has a coefficient similar to any of the steels other than stainless steels (some of which have little iron in them at all). Cast iron, cast steel, wrought carbon steels and mild steels are all around half of the expansion rates of aluminum alloys.
Metals - Temperature Expansion Coefficients

Aluminum pistons normally have steel "struts" cast into them, around the wrist pin hole areas, to limit expansion across that area. The piston is Cam-ground" to have larger cold clearances at the wrist pin areas, since the areas 90° to that get a lot hotter and expand more and close up that clearance. The hotter areas don't have the wrist pin and rod to conduct heat out of them.

The Orenda's operating life? You'll have to debate that with guys like Ross of SDS fame and some other that have run auto conversions really hard for a long time. I myself installed a Subaru 2.2 conversion in a Glastar and flew it. At full throttle sometimes. Tough little engine. The redrive was more trouble than the engine itself.
 

Bellaire MK

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Joined
Oct 11, 2021
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44
Howdy folks,

Has anyone scratch built a Beaver or any other aircraft of a similar size and importantly role? I looked into the Murphy Moose but it's only available as a kit. I came across the St-Just Cyclone which is a replica of the Cessna 180 / 185 and was wondering if someone has done a similar job to the Beaver or Norseman. I also looked into the Bearhawk 5 place but it's quite than smaller than what I'm looking for.
Helio Courier would be a realistic choice and affordable, or the Pilatus PC-6, or...
 

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Tiger Tim

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Apr 26, 2013
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Thunder Bay
There was a member here (does Craftsven sound familiar?) who built several bush planes of his own design, the last being in about the same league as what the OP here is after. Might be worth trying to establish contact.
 

Bellaire MK

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Oct 11, 2021
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44
I'm new to this, but could have a STOL wing that could be used on this design. Don't get out much!
 

SpruceForest

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May 23, 2022
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196
Bearhawk 5? Hang an M-14P on the windward end and you get something that will haul 5 adults or 4+2 and a few hours gas off water. Both kit or plans-built, and factory/designer support is good. Truth in advertising: have a Patrol plans-built under construction, so familiar with other Bob products. Not a Vans... old-school drawings that rely on some knowledge of drafting and interpretation of 'sketch' level details.
 

Tiger Tim

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Apr 26, 2013
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4,860
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Thunder Bay
There was a member here (does Craftsven sound familiar?) who built several bush planes of his own design, the last being in about the same league as what the OP here is after. Might be worth trying to establish contact.
Ah, here we are:

and

This has to be near what you’re after, no?
1655402631089.jpeg
 

philr

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Dec 26, 2020
Messages
204
I rebuilt a set of crashed Norsman wings when I was about 24 years old. The plane went down into the trees so about 2/3 of the ribs were in pieces so they had to be replaced. Spars were still good and the metal parts between spars were still good. Leading edges had to be replaced so we made a custom knife for our milling machine to run that profile. Also I am from Red Lake Ontario otherwise known as the Norseman capital of the world. They used to host a Norseman Fly-in there each year with 30+ Norseman's showing up. Had some friends that flew them and from memory it was around 1000 hp engine and on floats would burn 30+ gallons of fuel on take off and around 18 gph cruise and if the noise up front quits just look straight down to find your landing spot.. has the glide ratio of a brick. Norseman are very loved by the pilots who flew them and are an incredible work On radial engines they were converting some Otter's to a big radial out of Russia I think and it seemed to out perform the turbine conversions but was very shaky (vibration). Also spent way too many hours in a Pilatus Porter as a kid as we lived 180 mile north of Red Lake and it was Flyin only. I remember one time it was over 2 1/2 of flying time to get there with a nasty headwind. Climbed like a home sick angel but cruised at 90 mph on floats.
 

PMD

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Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
1,123
Location
Martensville SK
You mean to tell me Aluminum expands at twice the rate of steel irrespective of what alloy or composition or silicon content there is? And as for the Orenda 600, I don't see how you can compare an automotive engine that was converted for aviation use vs a purpose designed aircraft piston engine. The duty cycles are entirely different and one can't possibly expect the converted engine to have the same "life" as an aircraft piston engine.
To start with, if you can reach Craftsven you might be able to discuss the entire design/build process with someone who had done 12 designs from scratch and built them in a woodshed behind his lakefront cabin in remote Northern MB bush. He is an incredibly accomplished and experienced engineer in several fields.

BTW: if anyone really wants a 900HP turbine on floats wheels and skiis with payload of an Otter and gross weight of a Beaver Sven might indeed sell one to you. If anyone is really interested and serious about that, feel free to contact me to move that interest forward.

As to the Orenda: there is absolutely NO REASON that it could not or does not have an adequate lifespan for commercial aviation use. It is far, far more advanced in materials, design, development than ANYTHING else that is spark ignition and certified to hang onto the nose of an airplane. That is high praise coming from me as I am/was a long time R985 owner/operator and absolutely LOVE that engine. Sadly, Trace (current holders of type and manufacturing certificates) went T/U and I have no idea what their current status might be. This is going to be the case with more and more SI engines as gasoline is such a ridiculous fuel for aviation use.
 
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