# WantedPitts S1C

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#### Monty

##### Well-Known Member
Want a good, straight flying Pitts, preferably 160-180hp: doesn't need to be a show plane. Have money, hanger, and blessing of instructor and wife (not the same person)....she knows I have good insurance. Instructor and wife not acquainted. :gig:

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Monty:

It looks as if you have been bitten by the bug, and you are ready to start flying.

Have fun. Be safe. Learn inverted spins, and the hands-off spin recovery method before trying any aerobatics.

BJC

#### Monty

##### Well-Known Member
yep, the bug bit me. I had an epiphany the other day. Until you step up to a cabin class IFR platform, airplanes are worthless for any form of transportation. Therefore you should regard them as something akin to a motorcycle. The main metric should be fun. I quit trying to make it practical, and stopped thinking like an engineer. Just accept these facts and everything falls into place.

I now view doing pattern work in my 172 about the same as driving a brown wood grain paneled 6 cylinder automatic Torino station wagon in circles around the mall parking lot at 10 mph. To make it worse there is paper work involved, and I have to go over the thing with a fine tooth comb before I drive it. Then I have to push it in and out of a garage that is locked behind a security fence........sheesh.

I guess I would also consider an acro sport or EAA biplane, but my instructor insists the the S1C is what I should look for.

Inverted spins are next. This time we will be flying a decathlon.

I'm not interested in competing. I just want to learn all those forbidden corners of the flight envelope that most people never explore.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Hey my mom's Torino wagon had a V8; so there. There was a S1 something over on the Biplane Forum and when it gets cold Barnstormers should be full of them. Pitts is the best or at least the standard, but still look at SmithMini, Starduster 1(what I am rebuilding), Little Toot, Baby Great Lakes, and as you said Acrosport/EAA. SOme depends on how tall you are and you might get lucky and score something in the 2 seat variety like a Skybolt or Acrosport11.

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
yep, the bug bit me. I had an epiphany the other day. Until you step up to a cabin class IFR platform, airplanes are worthless for any form of transportation. Therefore you should regard them as something akin to a motorcycle. The main metric should be fun. I quit trying to make it practical, and stopped thinking like an engineer. Just accept these facts and everything falls into place.

I now view doing pattern work in my 172 about the same as driving a brown wood grain paneled 6 cylinder automatic Torino station wagon in circles around the mall parking lot at 10 mph. To make it worse there is paper work involved, and I have to go over the thing with a fine tooth comb before I drive it. Then I have to push it in and out of a garage that is locked behind a security fence........sheesh.

I guess I would also consider an acro sport or EAA biplane, but my instructor insists the the S1C is what I should look for.

Inverted spins are next. This time we will be flying a decathlon.

I'm not interested in competing. I just want to learn all those forbidden corners of the flight envelope that most people never explore.

Before forking over the \$ for an airplane, I'd go take a couple lessons in a Pitts, preferably an S2-A. It will replicate the size, power and handling of an S1-C better than one of the usual dual instruction ships, an S2-B or S2-C. You'll need a Pitts checkout anyway before any insurance company will touch that risk.

I had Pitts fever bad at one time, made worse by a friend that would let me fly (and wanted to sell me) his S1-C. I found it was a great 15 min airplane, that was about all I could stand to be in the cockpit at a time. There is the realization much like you have reached in your 172, once you have BTDT, might find that's not an area that you enjoy. And of course, if a plane is not enjoyable to fly, it will sit in the hangar.

I do like some of the larger biplanes, like a Skybolt because it's stable enough to fly 1+ hrs at a time and it is still quite capable of aerobatics. One of the plus sides of a Pitts is that you won't have any trouble selling it. Plenty of others in line with the fever and plenty of Pitts owners have realized it's not their cup of tea, which on the other side of the coin is why it's not hard to find one for sale.

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
Also might want to study the type and figure out exactly what you want. The variations among S1-C's is all over the map. Some have the "long" fuselage (+6 inches) which I consider desirable; Some have symmetrical wings and 4 ailerons, some have "flatbottom" wings (Munk M-6 airfoil) and 2 ailerons, and firewall forward is like you are already familiar, 125 - 200 hp, fixed pitch or constant speed props, etc.

#### Monty

##### Well-Known Member
Hey my mom's Torino wagon had a V8; so there. There was a S1 something over on the Biplane Forum and when it gets cold Barnstormers should be full of them. Pitts is the best or at least the standard, but still look at SmithMini, Starduster 1(what I am rebuilding), Little Toot, Baby Great Lakes, and as you said Acrosport/EAA. SOme depends on how tall you are and you might get lucky and score something in the 2 seat variety like a Skybolt or Acrosport11.
A two hole bipe would be my preference, but the cost delta is lager than what I want to pay. Maybe I'll get lucky. I can't fit in a Smith Mini. I'm 6'2. I view this as a trainer, that I will sell at some point after I am done learning. The airplane I am building is no good as an aerobatic trainer, because it is too clean, and falling out of maneuver would be pretty dicey. So once that is complete and flying I will sell the biplane, unless I really get hooked. I'm mostly a gentleman aerobatics type of guy, but who knows......

#### Monty

##### Well-Known Member
Also might want to study the type and figure out exactly what you want. The variations among S1-C's is all over the map. Some have the "long" fuselage (+6 inches) which I consider desirable; Some have symmetrical wings and 4 ailerons, some have "flatbottom" wings (Munk M-6 airfoil) and 2 ailerons, and firewall forward is like you are already familiar, 125 - 200 hp, fixed pitch or constant speed props, etc.
Ideal would be stretched fuselage, two ailerons, but 4 OK, flat bottomed airfoil, fixed pitch 180 hp. My instructor is very familiar with the type and we have been over this and what to look for. I'm not big into outside maneuvers, and I don't want to deal with some handling issues the symmetric foil wings have. I'm after bang for the buck and lower maintenance. That rules out the CS prop. Not interested in competition so any extra performance the symmetric wings and prop would give are not something I need.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Monty:

Yes, there are multiple variations of the "Pitts S-1." They are not all created equal, and you can't go by the name the builder put on it. Budd Davisson is the go-to. Get a copy of his book if you can find one. I haven't competed since back in the last century. I prefer the S-1S for handling, performance, maintenance cost and bang-for-the-buck, and retention of resale value. None of the other smaill biplanes comes close to the performance of a Pitts. YMMV.

What handling issues with the round wing are you referring to?

BJC

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
A two hole bipe would be my preference, but the cost delta is lager than what I want to pay. Maybe I'll get lucky. I can't fit in a Smith Mini. I'm 6'2. I view this as a trainer, that I will sell at some point after I am done learning. The airplane I am building is no good as an aerobatic trainer, because it is too clean, and falling out of maneuver would be pretty dicey. So once that is complete and flying I will sell the biplane, unless I really get hooked. I'm mostly a gentleman aerobatics type of guy, but who knows......
All you need to do is put some saved searches on T-A-P and Barnstormers and see what comes up.