Phazer Build

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Marc W

Well-Known Member
I got the exhaust system laid out and have the primary tubes tacked together. I used the original flanges, the flexible couplers, the merge collector and tailpipe. I tried to keep the primaries equal length. A couple tubes moved when I tacked them so they are approximately equal length. I have a feeling they are close enough!

It was quite a puzzle! There were several ideas that didn't work out but I like how it ended up. I am going to hang it on the airplane before I finish weld it. I have a muffler to fit up and hang up somehow. The tailpipe may need to be adjusted for the muffler so final welding will wait.

Yellowhammer

Well-Known Member
Its been a long time a coming, but I have the engine mount substantially done. Part of the process is learning to TIG weld. My welds are still ugly but I am confident they will hold. To prove it I hung 500 lbs. of lead on the engine mount this morning. Then I leaned on it for good measure. It survived that test. The next step is to add brackets to attach the oil tank, coolant header tank, ECU, VR, etc.

500 lbs. hanging on it. The five gallon buckets are not on the floor. The engine and gearbox weighs 100 lbs.
View attachment 109200

Engine mounted and oil tank and header tank located. The OSB board is the mockup firewall. Trying to figure out a simple way to mount the tanks.
View attachment 109201

What is the current weight of the engine? Looks great!

Marc W

Well-Known Member
The engine with the PSRU is about 102 lbs. The engine mount is 5 lbs. but it will gain a little more weight with brackets to hang accessories. I am waiting to get the air cleaner before I weigh the airbox. I haven't weighed the exhaust either. I will do that tomorrow.

I checked the length of the header tubes today. I read that a good way to check the runner lengths is to fill them with water to see if they are equal. I capped the ends and filled one with water and then poured it into the other tube. One tube shifted a little when I tacked it and it came out a hair shorter than I intended. Sure enough, that tube is about 1/8" shorter than the other one. Close enough, I would say!

rv7charlie

Well-Known Member
What motivated the change from the stock intake/airbox; space in the cowl? Was the weight of the original more, or less than your intake system?

Beautiful work, BTW.

Marc W

Well-Known Member
The stock airbox is a big bulky item. Mine is smaller to keep the cowl slimmer. The stock airbox is fairly light in spite of its size. It has a simple foam filter. I am using a K&N filter which is going to be a heavier filter. I don't have it yet so I don't know what the final weight will be.

Yellowhammer

Well-Known Member
Marc,

I didn't have the chance to expand on how impressed I am with your engine project and the different parts that are included. I really appreciate you taking the time to post pictures and provide information from start to finish.

The photographs clearly show superior craftsmanship.

It is exactly what I needed to study to instill the confidence required for me to choose this particular power plant and follow suit. I am so happy to have found a readily available four stroke, 80 hp, engine as light or lighter than the 582. I can't understand why there aren't more of these being used.

In my humble opinion, it is the answer to the 582. Without a doubt, I will be reaching out to you in the not so distant future as I get closer to needing my engine. I have been looking around and have found a few.

I wonder if it is possible to bed mount it?

Is there any specific type or serial numbers that I should be concerned with trying to acquire or is everything all the same and straight forward?

Just to confirm, yours is the Genesis (Phazer) 80 hp, with two cylinders correct?

Thanks again for your time and willingness to share.

Respectfully,

Yellowhammer

Marc W

Well-Known Member
Yes, I am converting a two cylinder Phazer. I believe they went on sale in 2007. My engine is out of a 2010 Venture Lite which is a two up built on the Phazer chassis.

It wouldn't be hard to weld up a bed mount. There was some discussion about it on the Facebook page. I don't know if it went beyond talk. I wouldn't count on it being lighter than a 582. I think 10 or 20 lbs. heavier than a 582 is more realistic.

In other news, my exhaust system will end up weighing about 11 lbs. with the muffler. It could be lightened a little if I used thinner wall SS instead of the .063" wall tubing I used.

I finished fitting and tacking some brackets for the oil tank and header tank this morning. Then I started laying out the radiator ducting. I am going to build a pressure recovery duct. I am using guidelines from rv6ejguy's videos on radiator ducting. There are two part's. This is the second one with design guidelines:
Good stuff!

The cardboard cutout below the engine is my first iteration on the duct design. The intake side has a 14 degree taper on the bottom and the outlet side is not going to stay the way it is shaped now. The radiator will be where the two parallel vertical lines are at the deep point of the cardboard. The bandsaw blade hanging below the cardboard is to get an idea of what the bottom line of the cowl will look like.

Yellowhammer

Well-Known Member
Yes, I am converting a two cylinder Phazer. I believe they went on sale in 2007. My engine is out of a 2010 Venture Lite which is a two up built on the Phazer chassis.

It wouldn't be hard to weld up a bed mount. There was some discussion about it on the Facebook page. I don't know if it went beyond talk. I wouldn't count on it being lighter than a 582. I think 10 or 20 lbs. heavier than a 582 is more realistic.

In other news, my exhaust system will end up weighing about 11 lbs. with the muffler. It could be lightened a little if I used thinner wall SS instead of the .063" wall tubing I used.

I finished fitting and tacking some brackets for the oil tank and header tank this morning. Then I started laying out the radiator ducting. I am going to build a pressure recovery duct. I am using guidelines from rv6ejguy's videos on radiator ducting. There are two part's. This is the second one with design guidelines:
Good stuff!

The cardboard cutout below the engine is my first iteration on the duct design. The intake side has a 14 degree taper on the bottom and the outlet side is not going to stay the way it is shaped now. The radiator will be where the two parallel vertical lines are at the deep point of the cardboard. The bandsaw blade hanging below the cardboard is to get an idea of what the bottom line of the cowl will look like.

View attachment 109912

Marc,

Thanks for the insight my friend. I could handle a 15-20 pound increase over the 582's final weight. Since I have a header tank I could use two less gallons fuel and save some weight on the front there.

The main issue I am concerned with is excessive weight on the nose gear strut which for the Pulsar I's were notoriously known to fail. I have the revised strut the manufacturer started using in response but it has been known to give way in certain situations.

I plan on having my strut magnafluxed and peened. if no flaws are discovered from the flux inspection. Additionally, there is an aftermarket device that is mechanically attached along the span to help prevent failures. I think it is called an anti splat device.

The nose gear wheel fork is made from cast aluminum and looks inferior in scope which appears like it could form stress cracks rather quickly. I think if I had a NG collapse with a prop strike, it would send me off the deep end. LOL

Again, thanks for your wisdom and insight and above all Nice Work!

Mooman

Member
I got my engine mount from Greg mills at Mac areo, will be here on Thursday , for my kitfox 3, I am putting a 2016 phazer/ venture motor that I purchased from barn of parts

Marc W

Well-Known Member
I finally made some visible progress on the cowl. I originally intended to shape it out of foam but I have a deep seated aversion to sanding foam so I cast about for likely shapes to use for molds. I have a piece of a bubble canopy that looks like it came from a Vari-eze. It turned out to be just about right for the bottom front of the nosebowl. I also took splashes off a Piper nosebowl for the upper pieces.

I made a wooden frame to attach the pieces to and voila! I have a shape that will work! The cross section of the cowl has to enclose the exhaust on the left side and the intake airbox on the right side. It did take a lot of cutting and grinding to shape the wooden bulkheads. I also made another splash off the canopy to extend the fiberglass sides on the lower part of the cowl. I will fit that up tomorrow.

Marc W

Well-Known Member
I got side tracked from the Yamaha project when I bought this Rans S-7. It needs some work to be useable for my purposes so it is going to take more of my time. First thing on the list is to install an effective oil cooler. The existing oil cooler is fed by a 2" scat hose from a little scoop on the side of the cowl. The cooler is mounted against the firewall. There is about a 3/8" gap between the cooler and firewall. I don't know why they bothered! I am going to build a duct to feed an oil cooler hanging below the sump. It will be practice for my radiator duct for the Yamaha.

I needed more room in the hanger for the Rans so I took the wings off the Thatcher and brought it home yesterday. It is easier to work on at home anyway. This morning I bolted the Yamaha to the airframe. Now I need to level everything up and bolt the nosebowl in its final position. Then I will start on the radiator duct. You can see the black radiator positioned below the back of the engine in the photo below. This is going to be one long nosed Thatcher!

sotaro

Well-Known Member
Are you going to be S turning down the taxiway like a Yak-3 or Bf109? I watched both videos by rv6ejguy. I am guessing you won't have any problems with ground cooling with the proximity to the propeller. Are you putting the radiator so far forward for center of gravity reasons or are there aerodynamic considerations? I am so glad you are using the Phazer and on this aircraft. I am excited about it's development, and even more excited you are chronicling your efforts on these pages and not on Facebook (or in addition to).

Marc W

Well-Known Member
I already S-turn to see ahead. Either that or lean over the side. You can see ahead with the standard CX4 landing gear but I raised mine in order to allow landing at a higher angle of attack and therefore slower. Kinda funny. I recently did my BFR in a C-150. The CFI had funny ideas. The airplane has 40 degree flaps but we only used 20. He didn't like it that when I flared he lost sight of the runway ahead. I didn't even notice the runway disappeared. It all looked perfectly normal to me. What puzzles me is he also flies a Smith Miniplane. I don't think you can see the runway in that airplane.

I am keeping the weight forward as much as possible for weight and balance. It keeps coolant lines shorter too, which I like. I also like that keeping the radiator closer to the prop will help with ground cooling.

Well-Known Member
Thank you for posting your adventure. This is great! What do you think is a reasonable budget for a Phazer install?

Marc W

Well-Known Member
Tough question! I bought a running sled and a parts sled together so I don't have a firm number on the engine. The only thing I have a hard number on is the gearbox which is $3500. You can also buy an adapter to run a Rotax C or E gearbox for$1500. Then you need the Rotax gearbox. Sometimes they come up fairly cheap. I had the tubing for the engine mount. I don't know what the current price is on that.

As usual, it really depends on how much you do and how much you have done. If you pay for everything you may be better off to buy a Rotax. Another thing to keep in mind is that you should really be a card carrying gearhead to undertake an engine conversion like this. There isn't a builder's manual!

sotaro

Well-Known Member
Marc, I saw a turbo Phazer on the Yamaha Facebook discussion area. Did or do you have any thoughts on that idea? The Facebook posts were by a fellow who is planning on 12 psi of boost, hoping to achieve 130hp(?) if I recall correctly. Seeing as you are so high already, did/does turbo normalizing appeal to you? I am really enjoying your project and progress.

Marc W

Well-Known Member
It looks like he set it up for the turbo with stronger rods and lower compression so it may work fine. Most people think it is better to go with a larger engine rather than add the weight and complexity of a turbo. The turbo would help quiet the exhaust though. To each their own!

Marc W

Well-Known Member
I have been weighing the pros and cons of reworking the boot cowl on the Thatcher. The top line of the plans built boot cowl is a level line. It is not an attractive line to my eye. The instrument panel is small and it is a real pain to work behind the panel and run new wires to the engine compartment. I need more panel space and I don't look forward to trying to work with the present layout.

I am thinking of making the instrument panel taller and then make the entire boot cowl as one piece including the windshield. The top line of the boot cowl would slope down from the top of the instrument panel to the top of the nose bowl. Then use plate nuts to attach the edges of the boot cowl to the top longeron. While I am at it I would raise the fuel tank to give more room for my big feet.

The advantage would be that removal of the boot cowl would open the entire top of the forward fuselage. Working on the larger panel would be a pleasure compared to the present setup. I also think it would look better. The downside is it probably will take more time and it will take more material. I took a picture of the existing flat boot cowl and then blocked it up in order to see how it looks with a slope. First pic is flat and second is sloped. Not a huge difference but I do like the second picture better.

Marc W

Well-Known Member
Wow! I wish I would have done this a long time ago! I could have just replaced the rivets holding the boot cowl on with screws and working behind the panel would have been so much easier!

sotaro

Well-Known Member
It looks like he set it up for the turbo with stronger rods and lower compression so it may work fine. Most people think it is better to go with a larger engine rather than add the weight and complexity of a turbo. The turbo would help quiet the exhaust though. To each their own!
The builder, Gregg Himes, posted his total weight for the Phazer, (twin cylinder 500cc DOHC snowmobile engine), including turbo, gear reduction, radiator, exhaust and intake manifolds, intercooler and liquids, 160 ish lbs. He says 140hp. I asked about the weight for turbo normalizing. No answer.