Phazer Build

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slociviccoupe

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Depending on the ecu some of the oem ecu's are flashable. But also depends if anyone has cracked the code and written software for it.
The service to have ecu reflashed for yamaha skis is 500$. Thete is a handheld programmer called map tuner and map tuner x. Check them out and see what they offer for the yamaha sleds.
 

Marc W

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I was able to get the gearbox bolted up to the engine today. I weighed it and found the balance point. The engine with gearbox mounted and all the accessories listed in post #27 weighed right at 100 lbs. on the bathroom scale. The engine is about 19" long from the face of the prop flange to the back of the waterpump. The balance point is approximately 9-3/4" behind the prop flange. Overall height of the engine is about 21". The center of the prop flange is about 14" from the tabletop and so is about 7" below the top of the engine. Now I can start to layout the engine mount with this info.

Balance.jpg
 

Marc W

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I have a mock firewall setup to use to design and build the engine mount. I set it up this morning to see how things look with the gearbox installed. The firewall is positioned about where it will go relative to the engine. I think the vertical location works where it is pictured. I put a 12" spinner on it to see how that fits and a thin piece of aluminum to approximate the lower cowl line in the front. I think it works!

Cowl lines.jpg
 

Vigilant1

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Marc,
Does the aluminum strip represent the stock Thatcher cowl line, or what you plan to make for a custom cowl?
Sorry if I missed it: What's the plan for the radiator? It is tempting to use that "excess" real estate between the engine and the firewall (and can help with your CG management with the lighter engine) but it might be a challenge to make the ducting work well/have good pressure recovery.
Thanks for these posts!

(Another) Mark
 

wsimpso1

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I think that the narrow profile practically begs for routing intake and exhaust to air filter and muffler between engine and firewall, then a nicely shaped exhaust pipe. Then run coolant back to a P-51 style belly scoop and outlet for cooling. If it that forces the prop hub forward another inch or two but keeps the cowl lines clean, you get to choose between having it look turbine or retro. Narrow cowl makes it easy to look around the spinner, see down to each side of the nose, etc.

Billski
 

allonsye

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Winchester, VA
Marc,

I appreciate your post/thread enormously - I've been considering the CX4 as my next project. I've found a nearly completed one but I'm skeptical of the VW iterations for a powerplant and for the reasons stated in this thread.

The CX fuel capacity is rather limiting at 10.5 gal. What kind of range were you getting when you operated with the VW? Have you found any solid range numbers for the Phazer in comparison? Maybe you're considering adding more fuel capacity to the CX.

I'm considering operating Jabiru 2200 for simplicity's sake. I have one in my Avid B stol and I've been very pleased with it. The Jab fuel burn is a little over 4 gal an hr. In a CX that seems about 2 hrs of range and a few minutes of reserve. I've been tracking the Phazer conversions. But I think by the time I were to get one all ironed out and working, the Jabiru might come in at much less outlay.

btw, the Phazer looks very very similar to the 1199cc in the Yamaha Super Tenere. I have one and it's been a really great motorcycle. The motor is amazingly robust and they have a fantastic reputation for reliability.

Paul
Winchester VA
 

BJC

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I'm considering operating Jabiru 2200 for simplicity's sake.
I like that idea, although Dave Thatcher's reaction when I asked him about it was, "No. It is too light. Placing it far enough forward for balance will ruin the lines of the airplane."


BJC
 

Mohawk750

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I like that idea, although Dave Thatcher's reaction when I asked him about it was, "No. It is too light. Placing it far enough forward for balance will ruin the lines of the airplane."
Then I guess Mr. Thatcher won't care much for the Phaser either!

Designers make design decisions based on what they know and trust and routinely discourage straying too far from the tried and true. It's understandable, they don't want somebodies one-off departure tarnishing the reputation of the design.

That said, they call it "experimental aviation" for a reason and I'm all in for the Jabaru and the Phaser options being developed to suit the builders comfort and taste. I personally don't think the CX4 would suffer from a properly executed streatched cowling and I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with! 👍
 

TFF

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I don’t know Mr Thatcher, but he comes across very conservative because his name is on it. Change something and he wants no part of it. I can understand that as much as I can the free will of experimentals. Both ideas can coexist. I think, with good worry, someone is going to pull the wings off thinking it’s an Extra when they put more than a VW on it. With reliable extra power he probably doesn’t want the plane flying around at redline all the time.

I personally think it’s pretty cool to try this out, but in the wrong hands the plane could go poof. Any plane can. This thing will probably have 20% more useable power it wasn’t designed for.
 

Marc W

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Does the aluminum strip represent the stock Thatcher cowl line, or what you plan to make for a custom cowl?
The aluminum strip is just to get an idea of what the bottom cowl line might look like. It looks like it will resemble the early Spitfire with the addition of an air scoop. I can live with that.

The result of my numbers crunching so far indicates the engine will need to go even further forward than I pictured above. I need a rubber engine mount until I get everything located and mounted! The engine has a dry sump so the oil tank will sit right behind the engine. The radiator and exhaust and battery will also be in that space. I really need to keep everything as far forward as possible. I don't have a design for a cooling air inlet yet. Plenty of time to think about that yet.

I am still looking at radiators. I suspect the stock Phazer radiator will be to small in hot weather. In addition to the radiator, the sled has a heat exchanger that depends on the track throwing snow on it for cooling. I will have better airflow in the airplane than the sled does but I am not sure that will be enough with the stock radiator. Some people have used the Rotax 912 radiator with the larger Yamaha engines. I may go that route.

I shouldn't call my airplane a Thatcher. I have made to many mods to it already. The CX4 is a good airplane but I am not impressed by Mr. Thatcher's eye for a line. I look forward to building a good looking cowl for it. I am also thinking of adding an extra fuel tank since I am going to have room for it.

The airplane is very economical to fly! I averaged about 2-1/2 GPH with the 2180 VW. I never flew it wide open except to take off and climb. Most of my flying is cruising around at 100 to 110 MPH. I fly at higher than normal altitudes since my home airport is at 5200'. I routinely fly to 12,000' to clear the local mountains. You can't make full power at these altitudes so I don't use as much fuel as most do. The airplane is a good performer at these altitudes. I ran a 60 x 44 Sensenich with the VW, which is larger than normal, but it really works well, maybe because of the altitude? The prop was originally installed on a Jabiru 2200 pusher on a CGS Hawk 2. That plane never flew so I don't know how it would work on the Jabiru.

I sent the fuel injectors in today to have them cleaned and tested. The running sled is slow starting in the cold. Snowmobiles sit a lot so I thought it would help to clean the injectors. I will start on the engine mount next. I am going to start out long and tack it together until I get everything mounted. It will be easier to shorten it if needs be if is just tacked.
 

Yellowhammer

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Awesome work sir. I am very interested in this engine.

A few Questions:

1. Is this a four stroke?
2. What is the final weight of this engine?
3. What is the best way to acquire this engine?

Thank you for your help and guidance in advance.

Sincerely and Respectfully,

Yellowhammer
 

Bill-Higdon

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Awesome work sir. I am very interested in this engine.

A few Questions:

1. Is this a four stroke?
2. What is the final weight of this engine?
3. What is the best way to acquire this engine?

Thank you for your help and guidance in advance.

Sincerely and Respectfully,

Yellowhammer
Yes it's a 4 stroke, 2 cylinder, final weight so far is reported as within a few pounds of a water cooled Rotax 582.
 

Marc W

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2. What is the final weight of this engine?
3. What is the best way to acquire this engine?
I don't have a good answer on weight. Likely heavier than a 582. As for acquiring one, move to snow country and watch the ads! Or buy from one of the snowmobile wrecking yards.
 

Yellowhammer

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I don't have a good answer on weight. Likely heavier than a 582. As for acquiring one, move to snow country and watch the ads! Or buy from one of the snowmobile wrecking yards.

Thank for replying. I did some research and found some suppliers. As for the weight, the 80 hp engine is competitive with he 582 Rotax. Only about 10-13 pounds heavier upon completion which I can live with.

There is a place called the Barn of Parts that I found that sells only quality tested used snow sled parts and engines.
 

Yellowhammer

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Yes it's a 4 stroke, 2 cylinder, final weight so far is reported as within a few pounds of a water cooled Rotax 582.

That makes me so very happy. I think I have finally found an engine the replace the 2 stroke 582. Thank the Lord.
Now, once I get the engine, I will have to find out how to prepare it for aircraft use.

Thanks for your reply sir.

Yellowhammer
 

Mooman

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Jan 22, 2021
Messages
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That makes me so very happy. I think I have finally found an engine the replace the 2 stroke 582. Thank the Lord.
Now, once I get the engine, I will have to find out how to prepare it for aircraft use.

Thanks for your reply sir.

Yellowhammer
Teal Jenkins makes the gear box
You will need to redo the wire harness and mac aero can possibly get you a engine mount
 

Daleandee

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This is a very intriguing thread! I'm following along closely. I don't have a need for such an engine at this particular moment but retirement is lurking ...
 

Vigilant1

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These engines + the little industrial engines + all the future conversions of bike, sled, and car engines: There are now a lot (and gonna be more) of low-cost ($2k- $6k) engines for experimental airplanes that could sure use an appropriate EFI and EI system suitable for aircraft use. Not fancy, not the most efficient with lots of sensors, no opaque code with limp home modes triggered by unstated faults,
-- just rock solid reliable with some manual intervention being entirely acceptable.. Just saying...
 
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