Paul Weston Sea-Era

Discussion in 'Bush / Float flying' started by billyvray, Dec 1, 2011.

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  1. Nov 14, 2012 #61

    qxev

    qxev

    qxev

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    before doing the plane, we should be defined accurately. what purpose will be priority...


    we consider what quality as the MAIN THING?

    for the home plane the main quality is a safety of landing...

    question:


    what can be safer, than the plane - which carries out a smooth landing IRRESPECTIVE OF the pilot?
     
  2. Nov 14, 2012 #62

    qxev

    qxev

    qxev

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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2012
  3. Nov 14, 2012 #63

    qxev

    qxev

    qxev

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    in "Bush/Float flying" format option it will look approximately so...

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Nov 14, 2012 #64

    qxev

    qxev

    qxev

    Guest

    it is obvious that the plane Sea-Era uses the same proportions (bearing fuselage + a plane wing)
    [​IMG]

    thus, it is the most advanced design among existing
    and a landing by this plane much more safely, than in others....


    that we also saw here

    https://vimeo.com/5364455#at=0
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2012
  5. Nov 14, 2012 #65

    Holden

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    qxev,

    A few comments about the airplanes posts. You may already know what I am going to say so I apologize in advance.

    If the center is square it acts like a wing about the 25%. If the shape is a delta it will lift at the center of area.

    If you use a delta, the stall of the delta will be at 32 degrees, whereas if it is square the stall will be about 1/2 that, or 15 degrees depending on many factors.

    If you combine either the square or delta shaped wing to outer wing panels, in no case should the outer wing stall first. In the case of the delta, you would want to rotate the wing nose down so that the delta can be at 25-32 degrees and the wing at 15-20 degrees depending on wing stall angle. If the wing panels have flaps, the rotation will have to be more.

    By placing the wing and center body (square or delta) at the right location relative to each other, different effects can be achieved depending on goals.

    What Sea-Era did was test the center body in a wind tunnel without the wing panels. We then combined the two types of foils and model them in the computer and got a Cl-Cm stability plat. As you know, this plot has a typical curved shape to it going to the right (negative pitching is to the right) if stable and to the left if unstable. (The graph is more negative to the right (stable) and positive (unstable) to the left by conventional standard.)

    By placing the wings where you want them, the curve can be straight all the way to 32 degrees. This is very difficult to achieve without this combination of wings of different types (delta and wing). This allow the airplane to have good pitch control in post stall or in high speed "mach tuck" of sorts. In fact, you could in theory make a supersonic airplane that does not have trim drag issues and NOT need a computer like most fighter jets do by the proper placement of this dissimilar foils (delta and wing).

    One problem with the Sea-Era is that the delta body has to pitch up nose high if maximum lift from the delta is to be achieved. This is not liked by pilots. That said, the delta has 1/2 the lift gradient of the wing and therefore gives a good ride.

    My new design solves some the problems I encountered with the Sea-Era without needing the nose up pitch.

    Thanks for the pictures.

    Holden



    Holden
     
  6. Nov 14, 2012 #66

    Holden

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    Qxev,

    The Sea-Era shown is the first concept flying. The outer wing panel was a Ribblett 37A315 which has a down turn in the post stall lift. We wind tunnel tested that foil and I did not like it for this project. Paul did not want to build another wing and flew with it. It got him in the end during the stall as shown in the video. Paul stalled it because he was watching the water instead of the airspeed. He should never have flow it with his 20 hrs of flight time experience. Paul hired a guy with 10,000 hrs and has not had a problem since.

    If you notice during the stall, the airplane seems to be "sliding" to the left. The hull is still lifting 1/2 or so of the weight.

    Had such a stall happened with a conventional main wing carrying the load the drop would have been worse and he would have been hurt or killed. If a turbulent foil is used with a long flat stall at peak Cl that does not drop, the Sea-Era would have just mushed in and nothing would have happened. Paul would have not had a problem with the Sheriff and all the nonsense that goes along with getting them involved. Paul learned this the hard way.

    The key part of the safety is also in the hull design. It does not dive in like most hulls that are curved. It also has a positive pitch Cm about the AC of the delta which combines with the wing panel to be a very low total negative (stable) pitch moment in cruise. This strong cancellation can be set to also counter the prop thrust line, unlike all other seaplanes known in the art.

    That said, I have moved on to more advanced concepts (in my view) that solve some of the problems found in the Sea-Era. There is a USA Patent on the technology (Patent US6264136 - High efficiency combination wing aircraft - Google Patents). Paul will License it for very low fee. He wants to work with people to bring it to production. Some Chinese guys are looking at it.

    I have moved on with what Paul has and add in my technology. I will be using his patent by license in my new design. I payed for the patent filing and wrote half of the patent. He also has another patent. He lives in Seattle area.

    Holden
     
  7. Nov 14, 2012 #67

    Holden

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    The central problem with all of the center body lifting designs is that the body does not do much lifting unless the outer wings are rotated. This added drag of the body has to add into more lift on landing otherwise it does not make a lot of sense. Hence, they go back to the old conventional designs.

    In the Sea-Era patent it shows how to get the lift that makes it work. There are many benefits to this approach that are not obvious at first look.

    All of the concepts shown really cannot get much lift out of the center body area and therefore fall short.


    Holden
     
  8. Nov 15, 2012 #68

    qxev

    qxev

    qxev

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    as well as any expert of aircraft, you climb at once in a jungle (search of the best design for FLIGHT)

    vicious logic

    it is necessary to look for not a design "FOR FLIGHT"... and a design "FOR LANDING"
     
  9. Nov 15, 2012 #69

    qxev

    qxev

    qxev

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    to whom the plane for the super pilot from 10 000 o'clock a raid" is necessary "?


    such plane in which can depart and on the basis of 20 experiences of hour of flights, is necessary for peopleit is the usual perverted logic

    1) to do the inexpensive plane.
    2) but to use this plane, dear pilot is required

    it all the same that:
    1) to do the inexpensive computer
    2) but for using to which need to finish 5 years of university


    question:


    will be buyers on this computer (even if it will cost one dollar) much?
     
  10. Nov 15, 2012 #70

    qxev

    qxev

    qxev

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    [​IMG]
    look attentively...


    also try to be defined, what it is MORE IMPORTANT, for any normal person?


    1) to come back home the live


    2) to spend superfluous gallon of gasoline


    It is logical to choose point No. 1...


    and to do the plane with a priority on "SAFE LANDING"


    or not?
     
  11. Nov 15, 2012 #71

    qxev

    qxev

    qxev

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    [​IMG]

    You pay attention to these qualities?


    No, you create "the plane for pilots of high qualification on the basis of 10 000 experiences of hour of flights"....


    and thus expect to have many buyers...


    though ONE - completely EXCLUDES another
     
  12. Nov 15, 2012 #72

    qxev

    qxev

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    [​IMG]

    Greenwings

    you study these possibilities?


    I think that isn't present...

    you again like idea to create a design "only for very good pilots"....


    and to expect from it a large number of sales...
     
  13. Nov 15, 2012 #73

    Holden

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    qxev,

    Not sure I understand your comment.

    Yes, the airplane should be easy to use or it is no good. Yes, a 20 hr pilot should be able to use it and not need a 10,000 hr pilot, of course.

    I told him to NOT use the air foil. If he had used the airfoil I suggested he would not have had a crash.

    I agree that safety if first and training is not the key. The key is design. This is why I have more advanced design and did not finish the high wing. The Sea-Era is much better than a Cessna on floats or an ICON, but it still has some issues. Most designers just blow it off and think it is the pilot's fault. I do not.

    So, I think I agree with you if I understand what you are saying.

    Holden
     
  14. Nov 15, 2012 #74

    Holden

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    Yes, safety is #1, all else second.

    I agree

    Holden
     
  15. Nov 15, 2012 #75

    Holden

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    I think you misunderstand the 10,000 pilot comment. It did not need a high time pilot if that pilot did not stall it or if it had the right airfoil. We are not selling the airplane, nor would I with that laminar airfoil. It was a proof of concept not intended for the general market. It only has one seat.

    I agree that it must be safe, and this is why I have moved onto more advanced concepts. In order to make it safe, as you say, a new concept is required.

    I think we agree here...

    Holden
     
  16. Nov 15, 2012 #76

    Holden

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    No, I expect a large number of sales ONLY IF IT IS VERY SAFE. Zero sales if it is not safe. If you compare the low wing Sea-Era to other seaplane it is, however, MUCH safer than the other airplanes in many respects. Yes, it will not meet safety issues, but neither will FAR 23 airplanes, not even close.

    One of the main reasons I did not continue with the old Sea-Era design is that I wanted it to be much safer. That is what I am doing.

    When I am done you should be able to fly with very little training and not have a problem if you forget something or don't watch your speed. I have this figured out in my new design.

    Yes, I have studied those types of airplanes. MUCH more dangerous than what I have now. The old Sea-Era is safer with the right foil. These designs will tip stall and are NOT seaplanes, therefore not safe. All airplanes should be able to land in water.

    Holden

    Holden
     
  17. Nov 15, 2012 #77

    qxev

    qxev

    qxev

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    it is very pleasant for hearing...


    but at me one more question.


    you saw more safe landing, than it?

    09 26 09 PontiacLakeRally- Roar On The Shore - YouTube
    Hoverwing UH18-spw flying hovercraft - YouTube
    Universal Hovercraft - UH-18SPW Hoverwing
    UH 18spw hovercraft Flying Hoverwing - YouTube

    I remind - people who at all aren't pilots there sit

    by your plane there can be live people who at all aren't pilots?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2012
  18. Nov 15, 2012 #78

    qxev

    qxev

    qxev

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    ????????????????
    [​IMG]

    Bodeneffekt

    aren't a seaplane?
     
  19. Nov 15, 2012 #79

    Holden

    Holden

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    To answer your question, yes a person will need to be a pilot. USA regulations require a person to have an LSA or Private Pilot license to fly without an instructor's indorsement. Hover craft don't. My airplane is NOT a hovercraft for obvious reasons....drag. Looks like fun, but I want something I can actually go somewhere in. The hovercraft is restricted.

    Holden
     
  20. Nov 15, 2012 #80

    henryk

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    -but is much moore universal\graas,snow,water,ice and water-sand mixture\...

    another russian example="023"= IMG6884.jpg IMG6852.jpg IMG6840.jpg
     

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