Discussion in 'Finishing Techniques' started by Scarecrow56, Jul 19, 2017.
I hate it when everybody else knows somethin I don't.
what the hell is wrap?
Ol Rockie's gone too.
I just landed...that's when I miss him the worst; when in the plane.
Sorry about Fred.
Wrap is that plastic sign stuff you see on vans with all the complicated graphics.
I'm contemplating having my Mooney wrapped to match that old 80s picture of the charcoal/red one I had a poster of as a kid.
You will want to make sure ALL the stripper is gone and neutralized.
I have seen a plane where the insides of the wings had nasties splattered all over the insides of the skins from not cleaning up properly from the outside being stripped.
A plane must be inspected at regular intervals. Paint in the wrong places can make this more difficult.
I have seen wheel wells painted without having been cleaned, all hydrolic actuators, brake lines, etc... just coated with paint OVER the grease o.0
There are a lot of moving parts on a plane. You do not want bearings filled with paint etc....
We do our painting in house, and try to match the paint job with a major inspection. For good painting it is easier with everything in peices. With the control surfaces off, the horzontals off, the doors off, the wings off, etc.... you find a lot of things that need repaired. When we are doing the work, we see those things and fix them first. If just a painter is doing it, they dont know or dont care about those things and cover them all with paint.
For us the most labor in prep is all the tiny little discrepancies we find that need addressed before its actually painted. The stripping and sanding end up taking less time.
Unlike a car, a few dents and creases are better than a bunch of heavy bondo.
Actual painting is the fun part
ive used it for N numbers and stuff but would never "wrap" the whole thing. felt bad about using it for N numbers; it's non traditional, it's lazy, and it's for millenials
whatever happened to Old School...sigh.
I think if the sheet was cut up into small diamonds and applied it like overlapping fish scales or roof shingles it might be kind of cool. And different.
Dunno about the lazy way, less chemicals, less cost, less vocs, adds a repairable protective layer - less weight than fill paint and preserves what's underneath.
So while new it definitely has some advantages. The fully printed ones have some fade issues, the color sheets less so... may not be a 20yr investment but it comes at a much easier to tolerate price so...
Agreed Hepatitis! I have seen the multi colored ones degrade faster than the solid colors. They even tell me that when I have it done. That's because its a print ON a color and not JUST a color. BB I think overlapping would defeat the purpose of the whole wrap however you could have diamonds or fish scales printed on it. Imagine the cost of airbrushing scales on an entire C150! now looking at those jets I am pretty confident that the wrap will not come off. New tech doesn't always mean bad. On cars We switched from wooden wheels to metal and it was a good thing. I'm 61 but I am also open-minded and can appreciate new stuff. When I was a kid we didn't have this medium we are currently communicating on. I believe wrap could be a great alternative to paint if we can get away with it!
The stuff on jets are not forever. That stuff has a lifespan. The panda was on that plane to deliver the panda to the Memphis Zoo. I bet there was an STC used to putt it on. I know they used as a quick change camo, but it comes off pretty quick to painted aircraft for long term deployment. You don't want to wrap every time the plane needs an inspection. I think wraps are cheating; I'm not above cheating sometimes, but I would not have the same kind of pride in it. If you were wrapping a Bearhawk set of wings with hawk feathers, I would say cool. Its just the step to certified that I would say show me the proof. As a side note, you can have it, trying to get all those rivet heads on a Cessna to look good; I know I can paint better than try to make the wrap work. Flush rivets, much easier to deal with.
I paint fabric covered experimentals, mostly Searey's. A A&P friend on the field bought a C150 and wanted to see me branch out in capabilities, asking me to paint his bird. It had been partially stripped by the previous owners mechanic and we really needed to see what condition the aluminum was in. There were a few bubbles and pitting visible Because I can't fit aircraft in my booth with the wings on, they had to come off. That was fun, compared to pulling wings on a Searey where I can do it in 30 minutes.
I use Sherwin Williams Acry-Glo on the Searey's (fabric) and on this one we used Jet-Glo (for aluminum). It was the job that would never end, but in the end it looks great. And unfortunately its now up for sale. Posted it this morning.
AvWeb ran an article a couple weeks ago about using vinyl wrap on a Cirrus. As I recall there was no STC or anything like that required.
If you have seen the new LM-100J demonstrator (civilian C-130), the whole blue tail graphic is wrap. We are also looking to wrap my entire L-39 (work project). Its definitely gaining traction as a viable refinishing medium.
The vinyl wraps: are they applying that to the wings, too? What about the low pressure (meaning suction) on the top of the wing? Is that vinyl stuck firmly enough that it isn't going to start peeling and ballooning and causing massive loss of lift and a crash? Isn't that what killed Steve Wittman? Debonding of tfhe fabric cover on the wing's plywood skin? A 150 has many places for ambient air to get under the vinyl. None of the skin lap joints are waterproof or airtight. Even on the fuselage they leak. Many of these old airplanes leak rainwater or snowmelt into them, and it can travel some distance and leak out somewhere else. I regularly see evidence of that: corroded aluminum, rotten headliners and carpets, and so on. A composite airplane like the Cirrus is a whole different animal that way.
Old paint needs to come off. All of it. Most airplanes are going to have some spots of corrosion, and if those aren't properly cleaned up and new paint is put over them, the corrosion continues and by the time the new finish shows bubbling, the skin underneath is totally shot and has to be patched or replaced. That's expensive, much more money than if the job was done right in the first place. Once in a while we encounter another sad case of quick-and-dirty paint and some buyer finds he didn't get the bargain he thought he was getting. Aluminum, especially, can't wait to get back into the ground it came from. There was an AD some years ago against McCauley propellers; water would get under the decal on each blade and corrode the aluminum, presenting the risk of catastrophic failure. You have to understand the terrific forces on a prop to appreciate what corrosion does to it. (Edit: It was Sensenich, not McCauley.)
I have painted several airplanes, all of them taken apart first, stripped, inspected and repaired as necessary. The aluminum ships were acid-etched, alodined, primed with epoxy and topcoated. In some ways fabric is easier, since the skin gets replaced entirely. All control surfaces need rebalancing if the manual specifies it.
Cessna used laquer on many thousands of airplanes in the '60s and '70s. Some had no primer under them. It aged poorly and peeled off easily. We look after a 180 that the original owner bought new in the early '70s, and had it built and delivered with only the inside primed. Nothing on the outside. He had a professional aircraft paint shop do the outside properly, and it's still stuck firmly and looks pretty good after 44 years. When Cessna went back to work in 1996 they used epoxy primer inside and out and a urethane topcoat, and it will last a long time.
I know of a Helio that the owners farmed out to an auto shop. They sent the fuselage to the shop, who primed and painted it, then set it outside to free up the booth for other work. A wind came up and put sand into that raw paint, where it stuck. They brought the airplane back in and belt-sanded the paint off and repainted it. The owners had to replace every skin and every rivet on that thing. An airplane is not a car. The skin has a thin layer of pure aluminum on each side to protect the corrosion-prone alloy beneath it. That's what Alclad means. Pure aluminum will oxidize quickly and form a protective barrier, though it doesn't look good. Sanding the skin rips through that layer easily, exposing the alloy. 2024's chief alloying element is copper, and you can't find an alloy that will corrode much faster than that. Copper adds considerable strength, but it's a compromise, like so much else in aviation. In the 1980s when I was a foreman in an air-brake remanufacturing shop, Wagner built their spring brake actuators with a 4% copper alloy aluminum casting that corroded insanely quickly in winter road salt conditions, and that big spring in there, under 3000 pounds of compression, would blow the back end off and fly out and some people were killed. Follow a semi and you can see those round actuators on the rear axle, looking right at you. In the shop we'd take those cores and put them in a caged hydraulic press and crush them and release the spring safely.
I have thought about finishing fabric through the silver and putting vinyl rap over that.
Just to really get some thread drift going, how much effect would a dark colored vinyl wrap have on a rutan style composite bird? My own personal guess is that if anything it might be worse since the vinyl would act as an insulator, all the heat would be trapped against the skin.
The heat might loosen the stickum and the wrap could come off.
I'm more concerned with the effect on the foam and epoxy underneath, however i doubt there would be any greater propensity for the vinyl to seperate than if it was stuck to aluminum.
This is good. But after the metal conditioner treatment (containing phosphoric acid) prime with epoxy (PPG DPLF). This term "Etch" the metal or apply "etching primer" is stupid. You are "Cleaning" the metal. You ALWAYS want clean metal and the metal conditioner will do it and then it's ready for the primer coat. Never use a urethane as a primer because it wants to "crosslink" with a base paint. It doesn't work on metal. I would use a single stage urethane color topcoat; Basecoat/topcoat is too heavy, in my opinion. However, if one is doing some custom graphics (including pin striping & multi-painting techniques) and want to seal it all, then use the urethane clearcoat to bury all the custom graphics........Jan
Separate names with a comma.