P-51C at ~70% scale as ultralight?

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Want2build

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SNC v Hummel.jpg
Hey fella's, I guy in Italy took a Hummel Bird and modified the wing and tail feathers a little and turned out really nice with just few tweaks. His inspiration was a Japanese fighter. I don't remember which one though, sorry. Its no UL but with an all metal bird its pretty close. I was thinking of modifying the H5 to a Curtiss CW-22. The fuselage is somewhat close, granted the wings will be a different story. That's the dream right now...
 

J.L. Frusha

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Still playing with the design, while trying to modify model plans to make an unpowered, then rubber-powered free-flight model, before scaling up to RC. If I can make it behave in the micro-scale, it will give me insights at my scale, both building and flying.

Slight differences with the Apache Dive Bomber Mustangs give that some additional preference, imho. Mainly the slightly lower profile/cross-section.

Looking at 65% scale, then foreshortening the fuselage, without changing the wings, or tailfeathers, to create a 'cartoon-scale' version. I mean, wth, it's intended to be fun and that lightens it considerably, in the process...
 

Tangoavenger

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Hi People, Newbie here, thanks for letting me join. I'm very interested in this thread, as I am currently planning a project nearly identical. I have purchased the plans for a Hummel Ultracruiser, and am planning to modify the fuselage to look more conventional, similar to a P51D but probably without the radiator scoop. The plan is to use a much lighter engine farther forward to offset the weight of the additional aluminum in the fuselage. I'm attaching a photoshop of my plan, and also another sport airplane that I might just try to downsize, which looks almost exactly like what I want, except for the missing vertical fin support, the front cowl and that I want it to be an ultralight. Its a Vans RV3. What do you think?upthecreekstraightenedsrc0077.jpg
 

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J.L. Frusha

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Hi People, Newbie here, thanks for letting me join. I'm very interested in this thread, as I am currently planning a project nearly identical. I have purchased the plans for a Hummel Ultracruiser, and am planning to modify the fuselage to look more conventional, similar to a P51D but probably without the radiator scoop. The plan is to use a much lighter engine farther forward to offset the weight of the additional aluminum in the fuselage. I'm attaching a photoshop of my plan, and also another sport airplane that I might just try to downsize, which looks almost exactly like what I want, except for the missing vertical fin support, the front cowl and that I want it to be an ultralight. Its a Vans RV3. What do you think?View attachment 109074
Howdy and welcome!

I wish you well on your adventure into aviation and attempt. to build an ultralight. My own endeavors are delayed at every turn, it seems. The 'Great Texas Snowpocalypse of 2021' blew all of our plumbing and even screwed up some of out wiring (the old porcelain insulators with fabric covered wiring). Going to have to build cabins, move out, deconstruct the house and build a new house... (sigh)

Not shooting down your plans, but cutting 2/3 of the weight out of a Vans RV3 is going to be a serious PITA and may not be possible.
 

Aesquire

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The tail on the Ultracruiser is really close to P-51D shape, ditto the fuselage, except for the belly radiator you don't need. A minimalist paint job, Star & Bar ( USAF style, not Confederate ) invasion stripes, etc. would be a nice homage with minimal work. I'd add vacuformed plastic tips to the vertical tail and maybe wing tips. ( the Hummel tail is already "inspired by" the P-51D ) Paint on exhaust stacks.

That approach of minimal cosmetic and weight changes will get you flying months or years sooner. Cheaper, too.

I don't think the RV-3 can be made into a pt 103 or other country's various Ultralight categories. Or into a six seater. It's a fast acrobatic solo machine.
 

J.L. Frusha

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True, it could visually pass for a P-51D with some cosmetics and enough beer to not be concerned about details, but I really like the Apache, and I like the cartoon-scale stuff I've seen and worked hard to emulate, at least in profile.

Already have a WWII style Roundel for the Republic of Texas designed.

ROTRoundel.png
 

Aesquire

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I just went back and read this thread from the beginning.

A few comments.

Totally off topic, but I think a standoff scale Mitsubishi A5M perhaps with a 3 cylinder radial, would be a nifty project.

Getting down to pt103 weight is a challenge, Period.

The Shetland Pony plane is great! Cartoon vs. Authenticity? Give me cartoon. I really really like it. Inspirational.

Someone already suggested a silhouette scale model approach without the weight of an enclosed fuselage. Tube & gusset, fabric covered. The Ultracruiser long wing is proven, and you can paint the Mustang taper on or better yet, faux paint where you just suggest it's tapered. For example, white tapered paint on leading and trailing edge, and polished in the Mustang wing outline shaped area. That eliminates the actual root leading edge extension for the retractable gear you don't have, but keeps the look. Paint the bombs on the underside, etc. ....

re: medical & licences.

If you've never Failed a Class 3 medical exam, then you can self certify for a Light Sport licence if you have a valid driver's license and just don't brag about your problems. Ethically, & personally, both of us are mortal, doomed, and "might" have a medical condition that might cause us to fail a Class 3. Ethically, if either of us... Any of us, thinks we might be a danger to others, for example a condition that causes unexpected blackouts, then we shouldn't fly, or drive a car, which is far more likely to harm others. Other conditions that might cause us to fail a Class 3, like Heart Disease or Diabetes, require personal, individual, judgment calls.

My OPINION is that if, for example, your condition is controlled, so you are unlikely to pass out, go comatose unexpectedly, then go have fun. You might die of a Heart Attack? Lots of people will. With no warning. So ask yourself, is that a possibility? Or a certainty? ( don't respond with answers! These are semi-rhetorical questions to ask yourself ) My call is to stay within my Real physical limitations. Not feared ones.

I spent a few years on blood thinners, and the prescribing Doctor warned about bruising and bleeding issues. He didn't want me to continue doing full contact martial arts. ( SCA armored historical combat ) That made sense. He also didn't want me to ride a motorcycle, or bicycle. I might fall down! That is excessive caution IMHO, YMMV.

I don't need to know your medical history. Use your own informed judgment. You may be just fine flying Light Sport where your medical history isn't anyone 's business, unless you crash.

keep on dreaming.
 

Aesquire

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Re: emotional stuff.

Some people rub each other the wrong way. I'm not making excuses for anyone. I do urge patience and considering that something may have been misunderstood.

My earlier post #327, was a response to Tangoavenger ( great handle! ) and your following post, WITHOUT reading the multi-year thread for context. It could easily have been misunderstood as a comment on a much earlier post, and I've seen, ( and made my own ) comments on threads in response to years old posts that no longer apply. They often kick off a new round of speculation, inspiration and occasionally, hurt feelings. It happens.

We had a nice young fellow in a distant land I will deliberately not name, a Pacific Island group... Who wanted to build an ultralight with near zero budget, using weed eater engines. It's been done. I suggested a used craft, which would have been safer, much faster, and possible, if difficult to budget. He insisted he couldn't afford that, ( understandable ) and that they didn't exist. ( not accurate ) But he also wanted to take off from the street in front of his house. Totally understandable. Very few live where that's legal or practical, but sure, I'd like that too. Unfortunately he lived in an urban environment with overhead power lines and traffic. He quit posting years ago, so we never learned how he made out, either with his design, or anticipated prison time. ;)

So, you're not the first to get feedback you didn't like. ( seriously. Some people were really snarky about taking off in a city environment illegally, go figure! ) And you're not even close to the most crazy. Seriously. I mean, look at me! How many people on the Planet can offer experienced advice on why they don't suggest using 1903 Wright Glider controls on their design? :)
 

J.L. Frusha

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How many people on the Planet can offer experienced advice on why they don't suggest using 1903 Wright Glider controls on their design? :)
You mean like I recommend the Pamperito (South American variant) wings (Ailerons) for the Hovey Whing Ding and Whing Ding II? (both use wing warping) (II - for 2 main landing gear wheels, where the original Whing Ding only had 1)

I have just enough flight experience to have threatened to kick a panicking flight instructor out of the Cessna 152, in the early '80s. Ceiling dropped to a grey-out and he wasn't instrument rated. I had visual on landmarks and was familiar with the area. Made the go-'round and landed the plane. Refused to go up with him ever again.

I talked to Robert 'Bob' Hovey's wife once, while they were still alive. He had long since given up his aviation interests and was breeding Roses.

Jeff
 

Aesquire

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I freaked out a poor instructor on the Cessna cheap first lesson teaser program, back in the late '70s. Showed up for my appointment, bought the logbook, and let the crew in the office look at my 3 other logbooks, for glider, parachute, and hang glider. They didn't inform the instructor. Somewhere over western NY, while I was at the controls, we hit a big bump, and I automatically cranked around to stay in the thermal. In a C-152. When we got back, he was ranting about me thinking I was Chuck Fracking Yeager and almost killing him with a near stall spin... The crew at the office just nodded, and one asked me how much altitude I gained in the thermal. "200 feet". Much laughter then and they calmed the instructor down by explaining they'd deliberately slipped him a "ringer".

Karma got me later when the pilot who gave me a ride in the glider club Citabria asked if I wanted to fly. "Sure!" She then kicked it into a spin and announced " your plane". Later, the hanger rats told me that's how she picked students. If they didn't puke or cry, she'd consider them. Former WASP with more fighter and bomber time than most aces. I miss her.
 

speedracer

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I freaked out a poor instructor on the Cessna cheap first lesson teaser program, back in the late '70s. Showed up for my appointment, bought the logbook, and let the crew in the office look at my 3 other logbooks, for glider, parachute, and hang glider. They didn't inform the instructor. Somewhere over western NY, while I was at the controls, we hit a big bump, and I automatically cranked around to stay in the thermal. In a C-152. When we got back, he was ranting about me thinking I was Chuck Fracking Yeager and almost killing him with a near stall spin... The crew at the office just nodded, and one asked me how much altitude I gained in the thermal. "200 feet". Much laughter then and they calmed the instructor down by explaining they'd deliberately slipped him a "ringer".

Karma got me later when the pilot who gave me a ride in the glider club Citabria asked if I wanted to fly. "Sure!" She then kicked it into a spin and announced " your plane". Later, the hanger rats told me that's how she picked students. If they didn't puke or cry, she'd consider them. Former WASP with more fighter and bomber time than most aces. I miss her.
I flew hang gliders (avidly) in my younger days and now whenever I enter a big, booming thermal in my Long EZ I start circling. Can't help it.
 

Riggerrob

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View attachment 95570
Hey fella's, I guy in Italy took a Hummel Bird and modified the wing and tail feathers a little and turned out really nice with just few tweaks. His inspiration was a Japanese fighter. I don't remember which one though, sorry. Its no UL but with an all metal bird its pretty close. I was thinking of modifying the H5 to a Curtiss CW-22. The fuselage is somewhat close, granted the wings will be a different story. That's the dream right now...
Even better is the Curtiss CW-21, single-seater fighter. Its canopy is near the wing's trailing edge, close to the Hummelbird's canopy's location. CW-21s shared dozens of the same parts as CW-22.
 

Bigshu

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The tail on the Ultracruiser is really close to P-51D shape, ditto the fuselage, except for the belly radiator you don't need. A minimalist paint job, Star & Bar ( USAF style, not Confederate ) invasion stripes, etc. would be a nice homage with minimal work. I'd add vacuformed plastic tips to the vertical tail and maybe wing tips. ( the Hummel tail is already "inspired by" the P-51D ) Paint on exhaust stacks.

That approach of minimal cosmetic and weight changes will get you flying months or years sooner. Cheaper, too.

I don't think the RV-3 can be made into a pt 103 or other country's various Ultralight categories. Or into a six seater. It's a fast acrobatic solo machine.
Check out Dennis Brook's youtube channel. He built a UC and an H5. Both polished aluminum with Roundels. He wants to paint the H5 to look like a well known P-51 last I heard.
1617042359830.png
 

Tangoavenger

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The tail on the Ultracruiser is really close to P-51D shape, ditto the fuselage, except for the belly radiator you don't need. A minimalist paint job, Star & Bar ( USAF style, not Confederate ) invasion stripes, etc. would be a nice homage with minimal work. I'd add vacuformed plastic tips to the vertical tail and maybe wing tips. ( the Hummel tail is already "inspired by" the P-51D ) Paint on exhaust stacks.

That approach of minimal cosmetic and weight changes will get you flying months or years sooner. Cheaper, too.

I don't think the RV-3 can be made into a pt 103 or other country's various Ultralight categories. Or into a six seater. It's a fast acrobatic solo machine.
Yeah the plan would have been to do an 80% scaled down RV-3 fuselage with 2 stroke engine and Hummel (part103 compliant) wing and probably tailfeathers.
 

Tangoavenger

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Even better is the Curtiss CW-21, single-seater fighter. Its canopy is near the wing's trailing edge, close to the Hummelbird's canopy's location. CW-21s shared dozens of the same parts as CW-22.
If you're interested, here is a video of a kind man (I spoke on the phone to) named Max who has successfully transformed an Ultracruiser into a beautiful Ultralight version of a Ryan ST:
 
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