P-51C at ~70% scale as ultralight?

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Charles_says

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May 26, 2019
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Its meaningless to most people because they don't understand it. A PPL is considered a commercial license meaning your plane is for hire. So you had better meet certain conditions. Back on topic....

I'm sorry, "considered"? By Whom?
If it's the FAA, the should be some notice of this, somewhere, and
not just some exception to the rule as stated in :

Section 61.113. Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.
(g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of § 61.69 may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle.
and even there, it has no mention of "for Compensation"

But I'm open to learning....
 

Charles_says

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For one, conflicting information from both the FAA and AOPA websites for Sport Pilot say '... must be eligible to pass a Class III Medical examination'.
.
When it comes to rule making, Don't trust any of what you get from" AOPA". Sometimes they're just as much in the dark, even with all their alphabet soup!
And if they're wrong who suffers? Certainly not them!
If there is conflicting information.... Trust FAA They wrote it, and They can enforce it.
Aopa is just talk.
 

MadProfessor8138

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Have you ever noticed how ANYTHING pertaining to the Government or Legal system is written like stereo instructions or an extended warranty.........
It's always phrased in a manner that it's open to interpretation and they have a "GOTCHA" no matter how you interpret it ?!
You can't win with the FAA.....they even confuse themselves !

Kevin
 

Charles_says

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Yes, it is permitted.
61.113 (2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire. (c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

It seems strange that a group of people who should be highly knowledgeable of all things aviation have so much misunderstanding. Especially, when the correct answer is only a Google click away.

Um...
1) Sharing expenses for a flight, is not the same as charging for them.

2) I agree..
 

pictsidhe

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No way to know until it gets built, is there...? However, using the same sheet materials and equivalent sizing, I would expect it to have a comparable weight. Even if it's double the weight of some, it should still weigh far less than a piano-hinge mount.
You need to design it before you can build it. After designing it, you should have a very good idea of what it will weigh. Unless you use composites, which are often heavier than expected.
As it has more parts than a simple hinge, it will be heavier for a given safety factor.
 

poormansairforce

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Sigh....The PPL is a first step to the commercial realm. It may be limited until you take it further but it doesn't change what it is.
Maybe a new thread should be started about FAA regulations and such so this thread can keep on track of designing a P51 to meet FAR103 regulations......

Kevin
I couldn't agree more.

JL, please accept my apologies. I thought maybe I could aid you in understanding the medical thing but you've made your choice and we need to respect that decision. Now that I understand your situation I want you to dream big sir!:cool:
 

Lendo

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JJ Frusha or JJ.
Being late to the discussion, I thought I'd run the Far 103 Specs i.e. 254 lbs & 24 knots. through my own Spread Sheet (SS). With Cl of 1.5 and Fowler Flaps 1.25 (1.2 to 1.3)= 2.75 (2D * .73 =2.0075(3D).
As wing area is driven by stall speed, I get 119 sq/ft (No flaps) and 65.1( with using flaps).
A. Now 119 sq./ft/ Chord ( Rectangle "Hershel Bar' wing) is area divided by chord (using 5 ft Chord (c)), 119/5 =23.8 ft. Span(b) or variations of chord and Span.
B. 65.1 sq./ft. divided by 5 'c= 13.02 ft (b)
A. Tapered wing 2:1 = 23.8'/ 2=11.9' half span /3=3.966' =(x2 =7.933' Root (95.2" root and 47.6" tip) or variations of root and tip.
B. Tapered Wing 2:1 =13.02'/2 =6.51' Half span/3= 2.17 =(x2 =4.34' root (52.08" root and 26.04" tip) or variations of root and tip.
That's just a quick check, does it compare to others.
I can supply Roncz's formula for Wing Area if you wish.
George
 

Dana LaBounty

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Mar 29, 2019
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I understand the lust for a P-51 but a UL version would not really look like, or fly like one. In the near term you could buy and repair a UL project cheaper than building something and be flying in a few weeks. THEN start your P-51 project After you have something to fly. Just a thought that having something to fly may help your perspective and creative process.
 

MadProfessor8138

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Dana LaBounty........well,well...wont the Germans be disappointed to learn that their Corsair really doesn't exist.

Corsairs-0718ab.jpg

hqdefault.jpg

Aaaaaaaaaand.......their imaginary plane actually flies quite well according to the non-existing Youtube videos.

It looks like a Corsair.....flies like an Ultralight....so I'm calling it an Ultralight Corsair.
LMAO.......

Kevin
 

Norm Langlois

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I have said very little here . Its nice to dream. How can you accept the fact that in order to be a 103 you need approximately 120 sq ft of wing area ether by wing alone or by flaps or flaperon. to be in compliance with the 103 air speeds . You cant have it any other way just because you want to.That's 103 basics.
After that you will need to make empty weight and create a cantilevered wing. The aircraft you mentioned Ultra cruiser is not a compliant 103, its only close to it.
You want help you need to listen to those that have tried already .The requirements for 103 force your hand to do want you don't want. Make your dream unreachable with out compromising your design look in ways you wont except.

Look at the new micro light Corsair its only 75,000 euros who has that much to blow on an UL
 

J.L. Frusha

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Kingsbury, Texas
The smallest a P-51C Mark III can reasonably get, keeping the profile in scale with the pilot seated upright, is about 65%.

What that does to wing area and top view, I can't say,
 

J.L. Frusha

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Feb 17, 2006
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Kingsbury, Texas
I have said very little here . Its nice to dream. How can you accept the fact that in order to be a 103 you need approximately 120 sq ft of wing area ether by wing alone or by flaps or flaperon. to be in compliance with the 103 air speeds . You cant have it any other way just because you want to.That's 103 basics.
After that you will need to make empty weight and create a cantilevered wing. The aircraft you mentioned Ultra cruiser is not a compliant 103, its only close to it.
You want help you need to listen to those that have tried already .The requirements for 103 force your hand to do want you don't want. Make your dream unreachable with out compromising your design look in ways you wont except.

Look at the new micro light Corsair its only 75,000 euros who has that much to blow on an UL

... and has an empty weight of 496 lbs, WITH the gull wing, which is unnecessarilly complex, adding significant extra weight...
 

J.L. Frusha

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Kingsbury, Texas
The empty weight is quoted at "110-120 kg" which is 242-264 lbs. https://www.jh-aircraft.de/english/corsair/technical-data/
One I found used the Jabiru conversion and weighed in at ~225 kilos. Earlier version? No big deal. It met Euro ultralight regs, not US FAR Part 103. Site was Czech and now I'm not finding it, but I didn't just come up with it, I had to convert to pounds.

Engine dry weight is 119 lbs. minimum.

https://jabiru.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2200-Aero-Engine-Flyer.compressed.pdf
 
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