P-51C at ~70% scale as ultralight?

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by J.L. Frusha, Apr 30, 2019.

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  1. May 31, 2019 #241

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

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    Hey, no problem, just remember it all starts with a contract. You can take it from there.
     
  2. May 31, 2019 #242

    Charles_says

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    I'm sorry, "considered"? By Whom?
    If it's the FAA, the should be some notice of this, somewhere, and
    not just some exception to the rule as stated in :

    Section 61.113. Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.
    (g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of ยง 61.69 may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle.
    and even there, it has no mention of "for Compensation"

    But I'm open to learning....
     
  3. May 31, 2019 #243

    Charles_says

    Charles_says

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    When it comes to rule making, Don't trust any of what you get from" AOPA". Sometimes they're just as much in the dark, even with all their alphabet soup!
    And if they're wrong who suffers? Certainly not them!
    If there is conflicting information.... Trust FAA They wrote it, and They can enforce it.
    Aopa is just talk.
     
  4. May 31, 2019 #244

    MadProfessor8138

    MadProfessor8138

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    Have you ever noticed how ANYTHING pertaining to the Government or Legal system is written like stereo instructions or an extended warranty.........
    It's always phrased in a manner that it's open to interpretation and they have a "GOTCHA" no matter how you interpret it ?!
    You can't win with the FAA.....they even confuse themselves !

    Kevin
     
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  5. May 31, 2019 #245

    Charles_says

    Charles_says

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    Um...
    1) Sharing expenses for a flight, is not the same as charging for them.

    2) I agree..
     
  6. May 31, 2019 #246

    pictsidhe

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    You need to design it before you can build it. After designing it, you should have a very good idea of what it will weigh. Unless you use composites, which are often heavier than expected.
    As it has more parts than a simple hinge, it will be heavier for a given safety factor.
     
  7. May 31, 2019 #247

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

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  8. May 31, 2019 #248

    Charles_says

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  9. May 31, 2019 #249

    MadProfessor8138

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    Maybe a new thread should be started about FAA regulations and such so this thread can keep on track of designing a P51 to meet FAR103 regulations......

    Kevin
     
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  10. May 31, 2019 #250

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

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    Sigh....The PPL is a first step to the commercial realm. It may be limited until you take it further but it doesn't change what it is.
    I couldn't agree more.

    JL, please accept my apologies. I thought maybe I could aid you in understanding the medical thing but you've made your choice and we need to respect that decision. Now that I understand your situation I want you to dream big sir!:cool:
     
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  11. Jun 1, 2019 #251

    Lendo

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    JJ Frusha or JJ.
    Being late to the discussion, I thought I'd run the Far 103 Specs i.e. 254 lbs & 24 knots. through my own Spread Sheet (SS). With Cl of 1.5 and Fowler Flaps 1.25 (1.2 to 1.3)= 2.75 (2D * .73 =2.0075(3D).
    As wing area is driven by stall speed, I get 119 sq/ft (No flaps) and 65.1( with using flaps).
    A. Now 119 sq./ft/ Chord ( Rectangle "Hershel Bar' wing) is area divided by chord (using 5 ft Chord (c)), 119/5 =23.8 ft. Span(b) or variations of chord and Span.
    B. 65.1 sq./ft. divided by 5 'c= 13.02 ft (b)
    A. Tapered wing 2:1 = 23.8'/ 2=11.9' half span /3=3.966' =(x2 =7.933' Root (95.2" root and 47.6" tip) or variations of root and tip.
    B. Tapered Wing 2:1 =13.02'/2 =6.51' Half span/3= 2.17 =(x2 =4.34' root (52.08" root and 26.04" tip) or variations of root and tip.
    That's just a quick check, does it compare to others.
    I can supply Roncz's formula for Wing Area if you wish.
    George
     
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  12. Jun 1, 2019 #252

    Dana LaBounty

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    I understand the lust for a P-51 but a UL version would not really look like, or fly like one. In the near term you could buy and repair a UL project cheaper than building something and be flying in a few weeks. THEN start your P-51 project After you have something to fly. Just a thought that having something to fly may help your perspective and creative process.
     
  13. Jun 1, 2019 #253

    pictsidhe

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    Lendo, your wong area calculations are wring.
     
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  14. Jun 1, 2019 #254

    MadProfessor8138

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    Dana LaBounty........well,well...wont the Germans be disappointed to learn that their Corsair really doesn't exist.

    Corsairs-0718ab.jpg

    hqdefault.jpg

    Aaaaaaaaaand.......their imaginary plane actually flies quite well according to the non-existing Youtube videos.

    It looks like a Corsair.....flies like an Ultralight....so I'm calling it an Ultralight Corsair.
    LMAO.......

    Kevin
     
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  15. Jun 1, 2019 #255

    Norm Langlois

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    I have said very little here . Its nice to dream. How can you accept the fact that in order to be a 103 you need approximately 120 sq ft of wing area ether by wing alone or by flaps or flaperon. to be in compliance with the 103 air speeds . You cant have it any other way just because you want to.That's 103 basics.
    After that you will need to make empty weight and create a cantilevered wing. The aircraft you mentioned Ultra cruiser is not a compliant 103, its only close to it.
    You want help you need to listen to those that have tried already .The requirements for 103 force your hand to do want you don't want. Make your dream unreachable with out compromising your design look in ways you wont except.

    Look at the new micro light Corsair its only 75,000 euros who has that much to blow on an UL
     
  16. Jun 1, 2019 #256

    J.L. Frusha

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    The smallest a P-51C Mark III can reasonably get, keeping the profile in scale with the pilot seated upright, is about 65%.

    What that does to wing area and top view, I can't say,
     
  17. Jun 1, 2019 #257

    J.L. Frusha

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    ... and has an empty weight of 496 lbs, WITH the gull wing, which is unnecessarilly complex, adding significant extra weight...
     
  18. Jun 1, 2019 #258

    radfordc

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  19. Jun 2, 2019 #259

    J.L. Frusha

    J.L. Frusha

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    One I found used the Jabiru conversion and weighed in at ~225 kilos. Earlier version? No big deal. It met Euro ultralight regs, not US FAR Part 103. Site was Czech and now I'm not finding it, but I didn't just come up with it, I had to convert to pounds.

    Engine dry weight is 119 lbs. minimum.

    https://jabiru.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2200-Aero-Engine-Flyer.compressed.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  20. Jun 2, 2019 #260

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

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    I usually convert away, not towards, those nasty Elvish units.
     
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