P-51 Replica. It's a Slow Day, so Let's Design One.

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cluttonfred

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The other thing that strongly colors opinions on aircraft is whether or not they were right for the mission. The P-39 is a perfect example...the USA pushed them to secondary roles in the Pacific as soon as possible, largely because of short range. The British pulled them almost immediately because they were intercepting bombers at medium to high altitudes where the Airacobra was a dog, even assigning Spitfires to American fighter squadrons waiting for their P-39s who kept them until re-equipping with Mustangs. The Soviets, on the other hand, were fighting a low to medium altitude war shooting down or defending tactical bombers and attack aircraft over the battlefield. In those circumstances, the Airacobra was absolutely fantastic and they loved it. If you haven't read Attack of the Airacobras: Soviet Aces, American P-39s, and the Air War Against Germany by Dmitriy Loza, it's eye-opening.
 

Deuelly

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You have first hand knowledge of the P-47 vs. the P-51? Way cool, I'm jealous!
I've been fortunate enough in life to end up running one of the top restoration shops in the United States. It allows me to work directly with some of the top warbird pilots past and present. Both in the air and on the ground.

If you're ever near southwestern MN give me a shout, I'll take you through the shop and museum. When this Corvid-19 craziness is done anyway.

Brandon
 

TXFlyGuy

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I've been fortunate enough in life to end up running one of the top restoration shops in the United States. It allows me to work directly with some of the top warbird pilots past and present. Both in the air and on the ground.

If you're ever near southwestern MN give me a shout, I'll take you through the shop and museum. When this Corvid-19 craziness is done anyway.

Brandon
Brandon -

Where are you located? That sounds like it warrants a special trip. I have family in North Central Iowa, so maybe not that far?
 

Deuelly

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Brandon -

Where are you located? That sounds like it warrants a special trip. I have family in North Central Iowa, so maybe not that far?
Granite Falls, MN. We're about two hours straight west of Minneapolis.

It would be great to have you stop by some time. Preferably with your Mustang.:)

Brandon
 

TXFlyGuy

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Granite Falls, MN. We're about two hours straight west of Minneapolis.

It would be great to have you stop by some time. Preferably with your Mustang.:)

Brandon
Maybe that can be arranged. I have friends in the area also, not far from the Cities.
 

Saville

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Saville:

Do you recall the name of the Collins pilot? My neighbor, Bob, flew for them for many years.


BJC
Hi BJC - No I don't. I recall him having grey hair and a moustache...sort of a large guy.

In my logbook it looks like the Collings (to satisfy the picky) pilot on my flight was "Mark Heule" though it's a little hard to read the signature.
 
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Saville

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Yes the P-47 is better up high. It's comparable to the P-51 down low. What makes it a better choice than the P-51 down low, but not the best, is it's durability and fire power. This is only based on first hand knowledge and talking with the guys that flew them during WWII so the info may not be that accurate.

Brandon
Well ok but the original statement about P-47 being down low was with respect to flying qualities not the other aspects like survivability and gun power.

If you're going to open up the parameters that's ok but I was replying to the original statement. Hence my inclusion of a maneuverability study.
 

Saville

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My friend who owns Buzzin' Cuzzin says the P-51 is fairly easy to fly, as long as you stay inside of the normal operating envelope. Go outside that envelope, and she will bite you. You might live to talk about it, and you might not.

The recent fatal crashes of P-51's while carrying passengers illustrate this very well.
Bob Garriot came up to Massachusetts to get some Formation training. I was flying formation with Marc Nathanson out of Hanscom and/or Lawrence at the time so I got to fly the other plane in the training program. Bob was a really nice guy.
 

BJC

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Hi BJC - No I don't. I recall him having grey hair and a moustache...sort of a large guy.

In my logbook it looks like the Collings (to satisfy the picky) pilot on my flight was "Mark Heule" though it's a little hard to read the signature.
OK, it was a long shot. My friend and neighbor, Bob, flew the P-51s for Collings as well as the B-25. Another friend and neighbor, Steve, flew co-pilot on the B-17 for a week just before the crash.


BJC
 

TXFlyGuy

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Hi BJC - No I don't. I recall him having grey hair and a moustache...sort of a large guy.

In my logbook it looks like the Collings (to satisfy the picky) pilot on my flight was "Mark Heule" though it's a little hard to read the signature.
The spelling is either correct, or incorrect.
Not picky at all. My name gets misspelled frequently. So corrections are made on a regular basis.

I guess I am a bit anal on spelling...should have been an English major instead of Music!
 
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BJC

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My name gets misspelled frequently.
Myron:

My name is Byron. I worked with two men, best friends with each other, who had sons named Brian and Bryan. It usually took them three tries to get my name right.

Now, if we can decide on Marc verses Mark ......


BJC
 

Deuelly

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Well ok but the original statement about P-47 being down low was with respect to flying qualities not the other aspects like survivability and gun power.

If you're going to open up the parameters that's ok but I was replying to the original statement. Hence my inclusion of a maneuverability study.
Ok, so below is my original statement about the P-47. By the paragraph structure you can clearly see I stated probably a better choice during WWII. Right there, parameters set. To my knowledge aircraft were shooting guns and trying to survive battle damage during that time.

The P-51 was probably one of the worst allied fighters of WWII below 15,000 feet. The P-38, P-40, or P-47 are probably a far better choice. To make a scale replica, of any scale, with the same flying qualities is a bad idea. Build the plane to look like anything you want, but design it to fly in the environment your going to fly in.
You then unknowingly to anyone closed up the parameters to just maneuverability in the reply to that comment.

I then stayed with the original parameters with my comment below.

Yes the P-47 is better up high. It's comparable to the P-51 down low. What makes it a better choice than the P-51 down low, but not the best, is it's durability and fire power. This is only based on first hand knowledge and talking with the guys that flew them during WWII so the info may not be that accurate.

Brandon
Please don't accuse me of changing parameters when you clearly did. Also, please don't start a "maneuverability flame" under the guise of not wanting to start one.

Sorry to the mods for pulling this so far off topic. I will not post anymore on this thread.

Brandon
 

TXFlyGuy

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Myron:

My name is Byron. I worked with two men, best friends with each other, who had sons named Brian and Bryan. It usually took them three tries to get my name right.

Now, if we can decide on Marc verses Mark ......


BJC
Yes! I can relate to that! My last name is Oleson (original Danish spelling) and you would not believe how it has been butchered!
 

Richard6

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Found this information in the local Minneapolis Star Tribune April 5, 2020 edition.

This outfit in Bemidji, MN claims to have original drawings of the P51. I know nothing about them and I am not associated with them. Just passing this information along for anyone who might me interested.

Here is is the website link:

Access is NOT free.

Richard
 
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