P-40 Warhawk 1/2 Size Replica?

Discussion in 'Warbirds / Warbird Replicas' started by DreamChaser, Dec 18, 2015.

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  1. Dec 18, 2015 #1

    DreamChaser

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    I was wanting some expert advise and opinions you guys have on a design concept of a Half size replica of a Curtiss P-40 War Hawk, but with a ultra light aluminum frame and body just like the hummel bird - teenie two - sd-1 minisport - or even a Cri Cri. what do you guys think? my engine will be a Hirth f-23 50hp. I am skilled in aluminum welding and fabricating so the building wont be the problem I just don't know it will perform like the full scale aircraft? I will try and keep the weight less than 300 around 275-285 empty. -The Original P-40 is: Crew: 1 Length: 31.67 ft (9.66 m) Wingspan: 37.33 ft (11.38 m) Height: 12.33 ft (3.76 m) -1/2 P-40 Crew: 1 Length: 15.83 ft Wingspan: 18.65 ft Height: 6 ft Weight: no more than 275 lbs empty. Engine: Hirth F-23 50HP
     
  2. Dec 18, 2015 #2

    DreamChaser

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    here are some examples of the simple yet great performing design.
     

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  3. Dec 19, 2015 #3

    ScaleBirdsScott

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    I've thought a lot about this very issue. I would say your design would likely feel a bit small?

    Also the heads of the F23 would just stick right out the sides of the cowl, why not the water-cooled inlines like the f35 or the rotax 582 series, since the P40 has a massive big radiator scoop?

    If the goal is ultralight like, then scalong the weight down and doing a low-wing version of the Belite (like the skydock maybe even) is a route to go. The Polini 250 would be great on such a thing at that.

    If the goal is more of a sportplane, scaled up a little you can really do some cool things with the P40 shape and still fit a human comfortably and so on.

    At the size you're suggesting now, the thing would be doable but tight and you'd have a hard time with a longer engine like the 2-cylinder in-lines which is why I assume you'd do a 2-cylinder horizontally opposed.

    If going that route, my money is on skipping past the P40 and travel back in time to the P36 so it has the awesome round cowling and then in that space fit a happy HKS 700 or the smaller Verner radials even.

    Let me just say that I've recently lost a lot of sleep, and progress towards a Hellcat replica... over this very question, and think the answer to whether something like this could work is "very yes"
     
  4. Dec 19, 2015 #4

    DreamChaser

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    that's a great answer to a lot of my questions, I do agree on the way the engine would kinda of stick out but not to much if the width of the front of the plane was decently sized to it and I figured it might look cool and the reason I liked the simplicity in the design its really simple. and I had some other plane ideas in mind actually but idk how well half scale planes will fly, in my mind I figure it flys big scale it will fly small scale and the reason im so stuck on the f23 engine is the 50hp to weight ratio its impressive and with some tuning I can make it a lot faster if I needed to.
     
  5. Dec 19, 2015 #5

    bmcj

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    Cockpit size would be one of my biggest concerns.
     
  6. Dec 19, 2015 #6

    DreamChaser

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    it will be bigger than if not equal to a hummelbird or sd-1.
     
  7. Dec 19, 2015 #7

    Wanttaja

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    One of the problems, I think, is positioning the cockpit for the most scale-like look. WWII fighters, for the most part, positioned their cockpits quite a bit aft. It helped to balance that massive inline or radial engine. You may not realize it, but planes like the P-40 and P-51 had the pilots positioned near the aft spar of the wing. Using a modern, lightweight engine, you have to either keep the cockpit forward or build the fuselage as a long pinocchio-like thing.

    Here's an example of a faux P-40 using a Fly Baby. The airplane depicted is real, and flying. It already has a high turtledeck with some semblance to a Tomahawk, and we were just playing around with color schemes.

    [​IMG]

    Note that the engine and cockpit are where they need to be for CG...but, of course, it really doesn't have that long-nose look.

    One can extend the engine and mount it further forward, thus requiring the cockpit to move back. But that gets into a fiddly little bit of design work. That extra vertical surface forward of the CG doesn't do handling any good, either.

    Not impossible to make a good-flying plane this way...but it takes a bit more smarts than most of us have. Loehle didn't do too bad with their P-40.

    [​IMG]

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  8. Dec 19, 2015 #8

    ScaleBirdsScott

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    The only thing the loehle does decently in terms of P40-ness, is getting the cockpit further back on the wing. There's a lot it needs to really pull off the grace of the early wwii fighter.
     
  9. Dec 19, 2015 #9

    DreamChaser

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  10. Dec 20, 2015 #10

    Wanttaja

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    Good approaches, both of them. You'll more-likely get something that looks closer to the original if the plane is designed from the ground-up to do so.

    Should mention, though, that several folks have done mini-warbird versions of the Taylor Monoplane. Here's a discussion about a Spitfire version...

    http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/f...d-replicas/20370-building-1-2-spitfire-2.html

    ...and there has been a Yak as well.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  11. Dec 20, 2015 #11

    Will Aldridge

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    As someone who has traveled a similar path only I'm a carpenter by trade so the WAR replica aircraft make a lot more sense for me than for you, at least if you want that bent wing. Since you have more experience in aluminum than I, you might not be as afraid of building a bent wing, but it scared me off.
    So to build my plane I basically stole the wings and tail from the WAR Corsair because designing and building a strait wing is tough enough. Adding a few kinks into it makes it a lot tougher.

    My philosophy was that I wanted something based on WWII fighters but unique and without trying to make a replica since they end up looking a little off. Sounds like you might be in the same camp. Take a look at my website in the link in my signature. It'd be cool to see another design that's inspired by but not an attempt at being a replica.
     
  12. Dec 20, 2015 #12

    TXFlyGuy

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    Titan Aircraft will soon be offering a 3/4 scale P-40, with V8 power.
     
  13. Dec 20, 2015 #13

    4trade

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    P40, P51 or P47 lookalike can be build using Sonerai 2(or similar tube frame) fuselage and Smyth Sidewinder or Mustang 1 or 2 wings with small modification. Cockpit is closer to right place.
     
  14. Dec 20, 2015 #14

    DreamChaser

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    as iv been researching everything the easiest most efficient way might be wood foam composite combination or whatever Is the the most cost efficient and structurerly effective. but idk how well I can keep the weight down with the wood foam composite design what are your thoughts? I really like the WAR f4u its perfect. but the website is down and idk where to buy their plans for the F4U..
     
  15. Dec 20, 2015 #15

    DreamChaser

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    here is an example of the construction I was talking about, excuse the different language lol but in the video they construct the plane with some type of combination of materials im hoping on of you guys know what this is

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19cEKIcBAoQ
     
  16. Dec 20, 2015 #16

    mcrae0104

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  17. Dec 20, 2015 #17

    Himat

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    Silence Twister, German spoken on the video as the airplane is made in Germany.
    Silence Twister - Silence Aircraft GmbH
    Glass/carbon fiber, epoxy and Nomex honeycomb core.
     
  18. Dec 20, 2015 #18

    DreamChaser

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    could I have this properly molded somewhere or could I replicate this on a home scale version?

    I was thinking about an idea I had to make the frame or structure out of aluminum or wood stringers and framing with cloth fabric stretch in layers than a epoxy or resin applied to that in multiple layers addition to cloth to form a thick composite left over to sand and primer to a perfect shape left over??

    also, I want to thank all of you for answering all my questions and for the advice!!!
     
  19. Dec 20, 2015 #19

    Wanttaja

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    One of the things I hope you realize is that a WAR-type replica will not be suitable for the Hirth engine you originally posted you wanted to use. You can build a good-flying airplane around the Hirth, but pushing it to look like a warbird may not be feasible.

    The WAR replicas typically use the very common Continental O-200 engine, a very reliable powerplant. Unfortunately, they are a lot more expensive than the smaller two-strokes like the Hirth.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  20. Dec 20, 2015 #20

    DreamChaser

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