Organization to teach kids to fly

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations / Flight Safety / Better Pil' started by bmcj, Sep 29, 2015.

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  1. Oct 21, 2015 #41

    Texas Flyer

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    Re: Need to Change "Can't" to "How Can We" ....

    BJC, As you said, the Bob Hoover of the thread passed away in 2010...that is exactly why we need to get something started to help young people and any age group get into flying.
    Our pool of talented and knowledgeable aviators is quickly dying off.
    There are lots of planes just sitting in hangars that never fly.
    Why not put those to use helping kids become pilots?
    How many have a project they will never finish that could be donated?
    What can we do to help bmcj and Victor Bravo get started today?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  2. Oct 21, 2015 #42

    BJC

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    Re: Need to Change "Can't" to "How Can We" ....

    Send them money?


    BJC
     
  3. Oct 22, 2015 #43

    Texas Flyer

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    Youth Flight Training Story Using the SG-38 Glider

    I enjoyed reading another story of glider flight training for youth using the Sg-38 Glider in Norway.

    Where is the best place to get clear and accurate plans on the Northrop Glider or SG-38 Glider?
    How much would it cost to build one?

    Click on:
    Scale Soaring UK - THE SCHOOLGLIDER SG-38

    From the article:
    "...(I) trained in a SchulgIeiter 38 in Norway in 1948-49.
    ...Lacking suitable flying fields, almost all glider training was conducted on frozen lakes during the winter. I signed up for one of the first training courses offered after WW II, and along with four others, whom I knew from many glider model contests, headed for the training site in the pre-dawn December darkness. In a barn near the shore of Oyern Lake north of Oslo, was a brand new dismantled SG-38. We stomped through the deep snow, and carried the surprisingly light pieces with their tangle of wires out onto the Ice. Instructor Haydu directed the assembly and rigging which took about one hour.
    By now it was daylight, overcast and a light snow was falling, covering the ice with a thin layer of dry snow. The wind was calm, so no aileron balance training was possible. A small 1930 Ford pick-up was brought forth and a 1000ft steel cable attached to the rear bumper. We watched the preparations with a mixture of fear and excitement. Haydu produced a large yellow and black flag and explained: "We will tow you around in a great circle on the ice". You will steer the glider behind the car and try to keep the wings level. You will not have enough speed to fly initially. When you can control the glider on the ice, we will give you more speed. When I hold the flag up, you may climb, when I hold it out, maintain your altitude, and when I hold it down, land! If I wave the flag, -release immediately'' (handy if the truck went through the ice).

    Initially I made Dollar signs on the snow-covered ice surface; the straight lines made by the wheels of the truck, and the S-pattern made by the glider as I tried to keep it on course. The circular pattern covered about two miles, and after a couple of rounds, I was able to keep the glider straight. There, finally, the flag came up! The speed increased, and the tiny snowflakes felt like needles in my face. I pulled back, and the noise from the skid was replaced by a soft whisper. It was a feeling that has never been topped later in my soaring career! I'M FLYING! Haydu was watching from the truck bed. Too soon he held the flag out; that's high enough! So I learned to fly about two feet off the ice going around in great circles for about fifteen minutes. Was it cold? Have no idea; - I was much too excited to notice! Tried to ignore the flag and go higher a couple of times, but the truck just slowed a little and lowered me back down.

    A couple of weeks later, my disobedient devil surfaced again. We had moved to the larger and more remote Stelnsfjord, and rented a cabin on an island about five miles from the shore where the gliders were kept. It was Friday night, dark and cold and we wanted to take the glider in tow out to the island. Wing walking would have taken more than an hour, so the towrope was laid out, I was strapped in, and told to stay on the ice and follow the taillight.

    Away from the shore it was very dark. The Ice was white and contrasted with the many small islands, which stood out black against the starlit sky. After steering behind that red taillight for about halt a mile I could stand It no longer and pulled back gently. The SG-38 rose slowly to about 400 feet, where I levelled off and enjoyed the view. FANTASTIC! I could see the lights from the truck on the ice below, it was moving along steadily; did they know that their student was up here? The night air was perfectly calm and I could barely see the islands slipping by underneath. As our destination loomed ahead five minutes later, I left my lofty wonderland and landed, ever so carefully, still attached to the towline.

    Afterwards, when the glider was secured in a cluster of trees, Haydu smiled knowingly, but did not say anything and neither did I."
     
  4. Oct 22, 2015 #44

    busting_bravo

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    bmcj, I have recently started volunteering at an organization that intends to do exactly what you are describing. We received a donation of a Zenith CH-601 and are working on building it every Saturday with a variety of children. Usually around 4-6 show up, though not every week. I'd say there's maybe 15 regulars? We do a Young Eagles flight every Saturday as well. I just took up 4 kids this Saturday, though none of us are CFI's (I'm the closest to it at halfway through my IFR, so I have a ways to go), but eventually we'd like to do some actual flight training rather than just some unloggable stick time.

    Ages seem to range from 6-8 (a bit too young and totally disinterested) to 16 - the 13-16 y/o's seem to be the most into it. No uniforms, and no pseudo-military rank structure or anything else.

    Texas Flyer, feel free to stop down any Saturday 10-4 (although often we go till 6 or later), KRCK.

    cheapracer, we'll totally take donations! Right now I'm trying to figure out how we're going to get an engine for this bad boy. I've seen a bunch of Rotax's, but every plane I've flown with a Rotax has had engine problems, so I'd like to stick to a certified engine, if we can find a good used one.

    Rockdale Tiger Flight - Home

    I really love the idea of a glider. There's nothing at this field in the way of traffic, so it's totally doable.
     
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  5. Sep 2, 2018 #45

    Hot Wings

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    Re: Need to Change "Can't" to "How Can We" ....

    Bump............

    I'm kind of disappointed too. The Cupertino Aviation Club is doing something. They have a non-profit structure in place and hardware. I think their hardware could be better if it were purpose designed rather than adapted from what can be scrounged.

    I've spent plenty of sleepless nights in the past few years contemplating this subject. Thanks to a comment by Victor Bravo in another thread he may have put another piece of the puzzle in place for me. I'm off to read my MPG thread again..........
     
  6. Sep 2, 2018 #46

    ARP

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    Re: Need to Change "Can't" to "How Can We" ....

    Why not use existing youth organisations and provide them with assistance in getting young people into the air. That way you do not have to run the youth organisation you simply provide your expertise in flying? In 1989 I set up a flying activity within Kent Scouts that is still running and thriving:- see https://www.activities.kentscouts.org.uk/old-hay-airfield

    It works and we are kept busy throughout the flying season giving air experiences to the Scouts. The funding is through the Scouts which takes the pressure off of the pilots who give up their time freely with their only payment being the smile on the face of the Scout and the enthusiasm that they show on landing.
     
  7. Sep 2, 2018 #47

    choppergirl

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    Build model airplanes, RC airplanes, and drones instead (add in model rocketry to boot)? Way more accessible, and the gateway drug to aviation for kids?

    19308.jpg

    The rubber band propellor balsa wood type and styrofoam glider type seem to be incredible accessible.

    If you have a class of 30 kids, and an unfinished airplane in the room that's one thing. That's work. They know they'll NEVER get to fly it. Even if they build the rudder with you.

    Pass out 30 rubber band power planes in little plastic bags, and they know they WILL get to fly them. In less than an hour. Outside. Everywhere, all over, it's going to be madness.

    Better yet, have them all build their little balsa planes out of... raw balsa sheets, printed patterns, glue, rubber bands, and plastic propellors. Cost savings. Build one for themselves, and one more to give away to yet someone else. Paint to paint them up.

    Those airplanes are going to ride home on the bus and swooped in the air by hand. 95% of them will be forgotten, get crunched at home with all the other toys, but 5% will have a long lasting impact. 5% is enough to save aviation.

    If you really want to be epic, make them rubber band powered BIPLANES.

    820669_size_2_newsize_2000.jpg

    One super cheap way to fly that is really nagging me to try it, is a helium balloon from the Dollar Store, the birthday variety... a roll of high test fishing line... and a cheap chinese go pro camera set on record danging beneath it.

    img_4421-2.jpg 51mBa+PSAIL._SY355_.jpg s-l500.jpg

    Fly that sucker like a kite, and take aerial photography on the SUPER cheap. I've even considered if it would be possible to find an open stretch of paved road her in the countryside, and tow such a contraption at slow speed up in the air from my motorbike and post the videos. Make a badmitton type stabilizer like in the ultralight videos for tow behind the plane on fishing line cameras.

    Do that outside while everyone is throwing balsa airplanes around, with the camera pointed downward, and take the video inside to show them back in class of the madness seen from above.


    You can still build you're "big" airplane all together, as a centerpiece project to take everything up a notch to the serious homebuilding level, but you need the smaller toys and smaller RC things THEY CAN GET TO FLY, and SOONER THAN LATER, to fire things up. Otherwise it's just work to the kids and you are using them as cheap, free labor to build an airplane for YOU TO FLY and THEY KNOW IT.

    Ask yourself, how many girls never will in their entire life get to fly a drone? Ever. Boys even for that matter. Buy one super lightweight toy drone. Change that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  8. Sep 2, 2018 #48

    TFF

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    The real problem is going to say no to kids. There are lots of kids out there and just about everyone would like a shot at learning to fly. Once a program is learned to be available to parents, you may well have a complete city try and get in on the action. They do inter city Young Eagles at my airport. About a couple of hundred kids in one day just for a ride. Picking two out of that group to go farther would be hard. Get a city of a million people asking. The problem is not the heart, but it is the volume. A percent of a percent would be more than all the local flight schools combined.
     
  9. Sep 2, 2018 #49

    ARP

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    We only provide air experience flights rather than give lessons as, as you say, the demand is high. With one aircraft we manage up to 25 flights per day which is generally fine as that is about the size of one group of Scouts. The idea is to get them air minded and then encourage them to go further if they wish. Other air activities are also encouraged such as Chopper Girl suggested, building models, flying power kites, gliding, model rocketry (solid fuel & water) etc. We know it works as some have gone on to become pilots, commercial & military or into aviation engineering. Scouts now include girls in their ranks and around 50% of those flown are girls.

     
  10. Sep 3, 2018 #50

    Mark Z

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    Interesting thread. I’m a mentor for the Eagle’s Nest project at Granbury High School. EN will pay for 20 hours of instruction in the school built RV-12 once the student has the written exam passed. We start our third airplane this year and have yet to have the kids interested enough to take the free course offered by Sporty’s once a Young Eagle’s flight is accomplished. I actually flew 3 kids last week with hopes that we’ll start getting them interested in the pilot training program. Where the EN program is lacking is in that it only is offered to the top engineering students. I’ve often said that I wouldn’t have held the grade point average to qualify for this class but now I’m teaching it. 0D2F3686-E79D-4C68-BD2C-9C21CE519F00.jpg
     
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  11. Sep 3, 2018 #51

    BJC

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    My bet is that you would have been motivated by such a program when you were in HS, applied yourself, and made the grades necessary.


    BJC
     
  12. Sep 3, 2018 #52

    Wayne

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    We are almost meeting the goal (I think since I did not read the whole thread) with the Access Aero flying club and EAA 461.

    Even though we have not yet tackled "Pilot making for free", thanks to the generosity of the current club owners and 2 individuals who bought shares in the airplane 2 kids at a time can learn to fly for $45 an hour wet excluding CFI which is handled one on one.

    We have a young lady who got a $1,000 scholarship on her own and I'm donating $1,000 from the Chapter funds for her in a match since we wanted to help her fly and did not send her to the EAA Airventure camp. First goal is Light Sport License and she has a job at the golf club to raise funds and is attending junior college.

    I have every confidence she will keep her end of the bargain up. We are selecting kids we know based on their involvement over time in our various programs.
     
  13. Sep 3, 2018 #53

    Pops

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    I had 2 grandsons that went to the EAA Airventure Camp. One started spending all summer helping my neighbor barnstorming his Stearman all over the U.S at 15,16, 17 years old, selling tickets, fueling, and helping people to get into the cockpit, etc. Airline pilot but for a few years but now a Corp Pilot flying a Cessna X . The other got a share in a Luscomb project for his 16 th birthday present and help restore it and got his flight instruction in it. Now out of college and an engineer and wanting to get back into flying. Helping the young kids to get a start in aviation is a life changing event for them.
     
  14. Sep 3, 2018 #54

    Little Scrapper

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    Going after kids is tough. They are broke.

    There's a lot of effort to attract kids which I feel is a bit odd. It doesn't make sense to me to be honest. Aviation can be affordable but it's still requires an income. Kids don't have an income so I always look at this as a flawed idea.

    Growing aviation might be easier if everyone focused effort on people over the age of 40 because generally better income happens with age.

    With all these Young Eagle rides and lines of kids waiting to get a free one what percentage of them follows through with flight training and becomes a pilot? Maybe 2%?

    Man that's a massive effort for such small results.
     
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  15. Sep 3, 2018 #55

    BJC

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    Hopefully, it is planting the seed of a growing interest in sport aviation; planning for the future.

    Agree, should be doing that too. After flying the kids, I gave rides to adults at Young Eagles events.


    BJC
     
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  16. Sep 3, 2018 #56

    Little Scrapper

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    Often times we look at kids as the issue but my experience is the opposite. It's parents. As a father of three kids I see first hand how the friends of my kids think.

    Parents who watch TV have kids who watch TV. A dad who is obsed with Hockey will have a son who is magically obsessed with Hockey. Parents in trailer parks who complain about being broke have kids in trailer parks who do the same. It's conditioning.

    Any guess what parents who are obsessed with flying generally have kids who end up being obsessed about? Flying.

    Nobody in my family likes anything aviation except for me and this has been a battle for me ever since I was a kid. It sucks. They all still look at Uncle Mike as the crazy airplane guy, it's all about conditioning from parents.

    Again, generally speaking this is true with very few exceptions. I'm personally responsible for changing my family direction. Because of it, my daughter wants to fly in the military and according to my sister now my nephew wants to fly. That is the impact an adult can have on a child.

    So I'm just saying that the current route we are on is fun and seems to be important I do believe we are really missing the opportunity here in front of us.

    I can see it now, parents telling kids "hey, they are giving free rides at the airport today, wanna go after the baseball game on TV". Imagine if a parent said "Let's go find out if you enjoy aviation, we'll take a flight and explore how we can get involved".
     
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  17. Sep 3, 2018 #57

    Wayne

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    We have an ex-young Eagle who is now launching Rockets for Space-X, having attained his Bachelor's and Master's in Aeronautical engineering and working at Scaled Composites. He'll tell you flat out if he didn't ride in Arnie's Breezy he would never have done it. I personally know a bunch of other folks who got their start from YE - one just got hired at American Airlines.

    Arnie has given over 12,500 rides and he thinks the conversion rate is about 1.5% . Interestingly junk mail and email campaigns have about a 1.5% success rate as well - don't see people stopping those.

    We did 109 kids at our last YE - maybe we created 1.5 pilots? Seeing as many of them were people of limited means and many minorities maybe we just helped some kid climb out of a lessor life?

    Also - don't forget the ancillary benefits - you make a sh*tload of people happy including the YE volunteers, kids, parents, bring revenue to the airport (restaurant is always busy for YE).

    Also - check out the attached Instagram post from yesterday - YE leads to other things, and now I'm mentoring a young lady and helping her get the most from life due to a bunch of reasons not suited for this board. There's nothing special about me - just following my passion for aviation.


    I'm 100% behind you Scrapper in most everything but I think you are off the mark on this one.

    Em.jpg
     
  18. Sep 3, 2018 #58

    Little Scrapper

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    Those are low numbers. I'm not against it, not at all, I just know it's absolutely the bare minimum. My point is and has always been that they are missing out on other opportunities.

    The conversation rate in my family tree because of my interest in aviation is 40%. Adults matter.
     
  19. Sep 3, 2018 #59

    Little Scrapper

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    Interesting the junk mail example, that would be efficient use of money. Imagine the cost of 12,000 rides to get the same %.

    I just think that's ridiculously low I mean, man, that's crazy low conversation rate if you consider actually riding in a airplane compared to a mailed letter.
     
  20. Sep 3, 2018 #60

    Tiger Tim

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    You guys are both right, it's just that the two audiences need different approaches. The kids need to be shown that flying is something interesting to aspire to while the adults should be shown that it can be achieved on their means in the first place.
     
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