Opinions on Wag-Aero's Sport Trainer

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

NX-4L

Coming soon to a lake near me.
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
33
Location
Three miles down Four Mile Lake
On the left is the instrument panel I bought that kicked off my project, next to it is a picture that shows what the airplane I am duplicating has. The two are pretty dern close...

P.jpegpanel.jpg
Today (Wednesday) was my "travel cushion," the last day of my annual vacation. I spent the morning sweeping out "the old boat house" where I will build my airplane. It doesn't look like much, but it'll get the job done.

Now I just need to build a longer workbench. I have a plan but must adjust the leg lengths as the floor is a half inch lower in the center and has a significant slope (1/60 or so) to the ramp into the lake.

Thanks.

Andrew
 

blane.c

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
5,010
Location
capital district NY
Considering aerodynamic drag of the floats it will not be fast no matter what wing it has, however getting off the water is serious business and extra time spent isn't necessarily a good idea so I would stick with the full size cub wing. I doubt if you will need the extra horizontal tail area of a super cubs horizontal stabilizer unless you are going with a big engine and flaps but sometimes I see a small pair of vertical stabilizers added to aid directional stability
 

NX-4L

Coming soon to a lake near me.
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
33
Location
Three miles down Four Mile Lake
My error, I misunderstood the term "clipped wings" and thought people were referring to squaring off the rounded wing tips.

So, no... No clipped wings. It will have a stock J-3 empennage, the L-4 pattern fuselage, be powered by an A-65-8, have no electrical system, and have a single 13 gallon cowl tank.

This image is from the Northern Aire plan sheet. The plans are for 1200 to 1500 pound capacity floats rigged for a J-3, PA-14, or PA-15.

cub on northern aire floats.jpg
My only hold up is the fact that their weight is unknown. For comparison single Edo 60-1320s pontoons weigh 70 pounds apiece and a rigged set 165 - 170 lbs. Zenairs are lighter 1150 / 1450 pontoons weigh 55 and 60 pounds apiece and 135 to 150 for a rigged pair.
 

challenger_II

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
462
Location
Fisher County, Tx. USA
I realize you wish to keep the bird light, and as close to stock "Cub" as possible, but have you considered all the issues?
(1) A-65's are solid, proven engines, but they are getting harder to support
(2) Hand-starting a float plane can be challenging if you are by yourself, and out in the sticks.

A C-90/O-200 would cure a lot of the issues, and they would not burn that much more fuel, as you wouldn't have to run them full-out.
 

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
13,558
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
A C-90/O-200 would cure a lot of the issues, and they would not burn that much more fuel, as you wouldn't have to run them full-out.
The best flying J-3 that I have flown was a 1941 J-3 (as in really light) with a C-90. I liked it better than the O-200 powered J-3. Both are much better that an A-65 Cub, especially in hot weather with two aboard.

Have flown a few Super Cub clones, and, with about 180 HP, they were in a different class.


BJC
 

NX-4L

Coming soon to a lake near me.
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
33
Location
Three miles down Four Mile Lake
The only aircraft that I have ever flown I held onto the door frame and balanced on the right float to fuel, often from 2.5 gallon cans. Then after making sure the mags were grounded and pulling the prop through from behind to clear it I'd flip the switch on and bounce it to start. I's not hard once you get the hang of it.

No airports, but there is a four mile long lake 40 feet behind the boathouse. Experimental, on floats, no engine driven electric system means I don't have to comply with regulations adopted for those who fly C-208s commercially.

Plenty of A cased Continentals and parts around if you know where to look. Some even have -7s waivered on single place ships. Experimental means I can do most of the work myself.

Everyone's mission is a bit different.
 
Last edited:

NX-4L

Coming soon to a lake near me.
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
33
Location
Three miles down Four Mile Lake
Is that a Benchmade?
The drawing is a Wag-Aero Sport Trainer-- it used to be called a CUBy but Piper didn't like that-- on North-Aire 1000 floats. The plans are also sold by W-A, 5 blueprint sized sheets, $55. They were drawn in 1964 by a another company whose name is blacked out.
 

Pops

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
9,612
Location
USA.
The parts that are getting very hard to get are the rear housing that don't have the oil pump cavity wore out. Also new Cylinders and crankshafts, tapered prop hubs, etc . Yes you can find cases, and maybe a wore out -.10 under crankshaft, but the price of a -.20 set of bearings is gold.
The 90 hp is the best engine for the Cub but also very, very hard to find. The only other way to go is the O-200. Cheaper and easier in the long run. But being on floats, I would use a starter.
I have two A-75 engines that need good rear housing.
 

blane.c

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
5,010
Location
capital district NY
I would put a handle on the boot cowl for hand propping. Put your hand on the boot cowl while you prop from behind, that is were you want the handle. It isn't aerodynamic but it sure is "handy".

For a non electric airplane it is hard to beat the little Continentals and if you have a source for parts buy as many of the hard to get parts now while you have a source. You will know how good your source is pretty fast then.

There are not "any" engines that hand prop are non electric and have the same weight that I can think of and recommend.
 

Victor Bravo

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
9,522
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
On an experimental CUBy / Wag-Aero, you could make a HUGE improvement by adjusting the build slightly to use the 80-100HP Rotax 912. You would have a 20-40 pound lighter airplane, that probably has the pilot sitting in the front seat, that uses the same or less fuel than the A-65, that has nearly Super Cub performance. And turn the key to start it.

Just because some people grew up as poor underprivileged children without food, or clothes, or a toothbrush, or a toilet doesn't mean that they don't deserve those things as an adult. Same with starters on float planes.
 

Pops

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
9,612
Location
USA.
On an experimental CUBy / Wag-Aero, you could make a HUGE improvement by adjusting the build slightly to use the 80-100HP Rotax 912. You would have a 20-40 pound lighter airplane, that probably has the pilot sitting in the front seat, that uses the same or less fuel than the A-65, that has nearly Super Cub performance. And turn the key to start it.

Just because some people grew up as poor underprivileged children without food, or clothes, or a toothbrush, or a toilet doesn't mean that they don't deserve those things as an adult. Same with starters on float planes.
You sure have a way with words. :) If I still had the used car sales, I would like to hire you :) I have to admit, I agree with you. Put a starter on it.
 

Victor Bravo

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
9,522
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
Thanks Pops, I've sold a few used cars and used airplanes, but they were all my own stuff. Does that count?

I like what I'm selling now more than selling planes and cars though...
 

billyvray

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
878
Location
Newnan, GA
NX-4L - maybe consider changing the wing tips. The rounded stock tips do look good, but squared (in planform) tips perform a lot better. Shape the tips like the STOL boys have done - either a slight droop tip or even a simple slashed tip (when viewed from the from the front - not just a straight cut-off) helps maintain lift out to the tip whereas the rounded tip sheds airflow.

-Not an aerodynamicist
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,369
Location
Memphis, TN
I personally like my Cubs to look classical. As much as the A65 is a little workhorse, I would want 100 hp. Especially floats. O-200 and probably for me a Lycoming 235. Early Super Cub power. If I had an A 65 sitting around and bitten by the Cub bug, it would be in an E2.
 

blane.c

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
5,010
Location
capital district NY
I would say it would be best to get an engine with a starter motor but if the idea is to go no electric .... ? My cub had O-290-D2 and no electric, handheld com.. Just because it can have an alternator and starter motor doesn't mean you have to put them on. But fuel consumption goes up and with dinky fuel tank ... ? Maybe best just keep it original with A-65 done and done. Providing parts source is real.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,369
Location
Memphis, TN
It’s an E2 with a A65 not a A40! Cabin width isn’t that important. I never sat in one but they don’t look any worse than a J3. Can’t be worse than 7/8th Cubish planes like an Acey Ducey. Unluckily load is with me. A40 would be a solo plane for sure.
 

challenger_II

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
462
Location
Fisher County, Tx. USA
You will find the E-2, and J-3, have the same cabin dimensions. And, yes: with an A-65, she'll be a true two-seater.

It’s an E2 with a A65 not a A40! Cabin width isn’t that important. I never sat in one but they don’t look any worse than a J3. Can’t be worse than 7/8th Cubish planes like an Acey Ducey. Unluckily load is with me. A40 would be a solo plane for sure.
 
Top