Once again with the FAA...

[Vigilant1]

Jumping through > normal < bureaucratic hoops is frustrating enough. But once you fall off the rails and into a crack, it is awful.
>Somebody< has the tree diagram for this whole process with all the exceptions and alternatives (whether it is written or just in office practice/lore). How refreshing and efficient would it be if it were all public and visible in a graphical depiction. We can dream...
The only advice I can offer is: If possible, find a way to make it easier for the functionaries to do what you want than for them to do anything else (including stalling). This might mean doing their job for them (e.g. writing letters they can simply cut-and-paste, then sign) and also highlighting the additional work it will be if they choose another route. At all times, avoid challenging their authority or competence. In many cases, their little cubicle and their cog in the machine forms a huge part of their perceived self-worth, and nothing good will come from attacking it.

 

[crusty old aviator]

Do you realize you are bragging about being a. Thief ? Then further explaining exactly how to be a thief and successfully steal ?

Remember the old TV show, It Takes a Thief? He stole only from others who legally stole from the vulnerable.

 

[Pilot-34]

Remember the old TV show, It Takes a Thief? He stole only from others who legally stole from the vulnerable.

But that’s not what happened here is it ? You walked in with both eyes open and stole something just for your own greed.
Man up admit it and make restitution.

 

[daveklingler]

But that’s not what happened here is it ? You walked in with both eyes open and stole something just for your own greed.
Man up admit it and make restitution.

I'm behind the curve, here, even though I went back and read the thread. My scruples must be lacking. Can you explain where the theft took place?

 

[Toobuilder]

Agreed. Im not seeing it either

 

[jedi]

Hunt him down, with a legalese dictionary, pages marked and show him?

That does not help. The IRS exminer said "I dont't care what you show me, I will NEVER agree that you can burn auto gas in an airplane". That XXX cost me $100,000.00.

You can fight or you can give up. Either way it costs you $$$.

 

[jedi]

I'm behind the curve, here, even though I went back and read the thread. My scruples must be lacking. Can you explain where the theft took place?

No theft! Watch the "Big Bang Theory". Sarcasm at work. This can gum up the works.

Translated to legal terms, "You got it so cheep, cost wise, it was no more expensive than it would have been if you had stolen it. Don't matter if the purchase was legal or not.

 

[Pilot-34]

He got it cheep because he didn’t buy all of it . The original seller only sold the physical object . NOT the right for it to fly
It sounds like that was clear but yet he bought it and is going about the business of trying to retrieve the right to fly it from a unwilling seller.

 

[Toobuilder]

That's quite a leap.

 

[Pilot-34]

I have a homebuilt that was donated at one time to the EAA. They deregistered it as "destroyed" and "gifted" it to another museum. …………
a nice letter acknowledging they had owned the plane for a while, and explaining they couldn't sign the BofS. The EAA emailed me an acknowlement that they had owned the plane in the past, and an explanation for why they wouldn't sign the form. I ………

They didn't care that EAA's email stated that the EAA wanted the plane to never be flown again.

Seems pretty clear to me that the original donor and then the EAA didn’t want to sell the right for the project to ever fly.

 

[Vigilant1]

In these cases, it isn't possible to know which of two things is the EAAs intent:
1) That the plane never fly again.
2) That the EAA not be liable at all for anything if the plane ever flies again.

The documentation/statements from the EAA, as well as their actions after the sale, could be the same for both.

 

[Pilot-34]

Or that the original Donor didn’t want the plane to fly again in any case the current possessor of the material didn’t buy the right to fly it.
But crusty old aviators the statement seems pretty clear of his understanding of the situation
“They didn't care that EAA's email stated that the EAA wanted the plane to never be flown again.“

 

[Toobuilder]

"...buy the right to fly it....?

I still don't know what this means. But I'll bet further explanation will quickly devolve into socio-economic and/or political ideology.

 

[Pilot-34]

Most things are made up of a lot of pieces you might buy a house and not buy the right to coal mine under it.
You might buy a ticket on a merry-go-round but that doesn’t mean you own the merry go round and can take it home.
Apparently at some point the builder of the airplane or one of the later owners separated the right to fly the plane from the mass of materials and retained that right for themselves

 

[crusty old aviator]

I get what you’re inferring, Pilot-34, but there are no “flight rights,” like there are “mineral rights.” Once you relinquish ownership, either through sale or gift, that’s it: you no longer have a say in how it’s used, treated, or disposed of...unless you have a written, fully executed contract to that effect. Even with the contract, the onus is on the original owner to enforce that any future transfers of the item's ownership involve contracts that flow down the desired limitations.
In the case of this homebuilt airplane, the original builder, who was also the designer, was thrilled his lil’ girl would fly again and sent me a full set of drawings for her.
If the EAA and other museum are concerned about future liability, they can always request I send them an executed severance of liability for the “destroyed” plane.
If you want to get into some really weird aircraft ownership rights, look no further than the US Navy...and all its wrecked aircraft, scattered about the globe, that it still claims ownership to.

 

[Pilot-34]

You can sever any right I take it that it was the EAA that did ?

 

[Pops]

If you don't like it. Simple, just refuse to sell. I have done a complete restoration from the tires up and the buying said it would be tiedown at a certain airport. NOT hangered. I refuse to sell, I didn't put all that work in making it the best to have someone let it set outside and get destroyed.
I usually had 5 or 6 people wanting to buy so I can get choosy.
What I do not tell the buyer, after about 4 weeks after the sale, I call and tell the buyer if he is not satisfied, just fly it back and I will buy it back for the same price as sold if it is in the same condition. Never had a taker.

 

[Toobuilder]

I continue to fail to see any legal issue here. A person who legally aquires an object - lawnmower, blender, table saw, screwdrver, boat, car, etc- has the option to use that object as they see fit. Would it be unfortunate and a waste to use a 1932 Deusenburg in a county fair destruction derby for you tube likes? Yes. But if I buy one, I certainly retain that option as the lawful owner. Why is some one off homebuilt airplane any different?

 

[Toobuilder]

....Apparently at some point the builder of the airplane or one of the later owners separated the right to fly the plane from the mass of materials and retained that right for themselves

....And as of 2 minutes ago I declared myself "King of the World". As King of the World, I require access to your bank account so that I can appropriately tax your assets. Please provide your account info immediately..

 

[J.L. Frusha]

....And as of 2 minutes ago I declared myself "King of the World". As King of the World, I require access to your bank account so that I can appropriately tax your assets. Please provide your account info immediately..

Account #1: $0
Account #2: $1.16

I'd say you're SOL