Once again with the FAA...

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robertl

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Heath Springs, S.C. USA
Ok, this doesn't have anything to do with the FAA but it is, was, a similar problem with the DMV. I bought a vintage camper from a friends sister, she never registered it or put it in her name but, she had the paper work from the man that she bought it from. Well, this guy also didn't register it so the title still has the name and address of the 3rd previous owner. Being the kind of guy that likes to do things the right way, I explained this to the lady at the DMV. How did I know she was a lady, because this was before all the WOKE S&!% started ! She said I needed to get each of the last two owners to write a letter stating that they didn't register the camper, yada, yada, yada. Holy Crap, it's a $900, 1975 popup camper for Gods sake ! I just ignored all that B/S, signed the other owners name, (3rd from last) and wam bam I got the title in less than an hour, whereas I had already wasted several days and milage trying to do the right thing. I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal or shady, I'm just saying sometimes simple is the best route.
Bob
 

BJC

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97FL, Florida, USA
a similar problem with the DMV
A pilot friend bought an Ariel Atom that never had been issued state tags. Apparently, it had lived in a race driving school its entire life.

Friend went to the local DMV to register it and get a tag. “Can’t be done.” Friend kept checking, and when a different DMV employee was at the window, he tried again. “Can’t be done.” Repeat one more time, “No problem.”

That thing sure was fun to drive.


BJC
 

J.L. Frusha

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Feb 17, 2006
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935
Location
Luling, Texas
I have a van, bought in Oregon, driven to Texas during the onset of Covid-19, as the pandemic spread eastward. The title is obviously rat-chewed and it is at least 2 owners in arrears, on registration. Eventually, I'll be filling for a lost title...

FWIW, I overloaded the van with steel components and drove it mostly down hill on 35PSI-rated tires, with 65PSI in them, metal rattling all the way...
 

Dana

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Apr 3, 2007
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10,782
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CT, USA
When I bought my Fisher the deal included a nice box trailer the plane was stored in... with no title, the friend I bought it from neglected to get it when he bought it. In CT, the DMV allows you to file an affidavit of ownership; you have to post bond of some percentage of the vehicle's value, which you get back in a certain time, I forget the exact details since I didn't have to do it in the end... I managed to track down the guy my friend bought it from in Rhode Island who still had the original California title, and he signed it over to me, which made my life a lot simpler.

Do airplanes have titles? I've heard of aircraft title searches, but I've never done one and never seen a paper title for any plane I've owned.
 

Stolch

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Jan 10, 2022
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56
No, just a Bill of Sale and a Registration. At least for my little EAB aircraft
 

Pops

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Jan 1, 2013
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USA.
Correct , a bill of sale and the registration. The search can be for any leins on the aircraft and can also get all the FAA information on the airplane. One of my C-172's I found that it had a major repair and a list and parts numbers of all the replacement parts. All the log book said was damaged on take-off. I was going to buy a C-150 and did a check and it had a $800 lein on it. Called the lein holder and he said he was paid the $800 but never took the trouble to remove the lein. So he did and I bought the airplane. It had been a drug runner. Had long range 42 gal fuel tanks and the belly full of seeds. You need to know what you are buying. Good C-150 for the Lyc-320 conversion. It also had the HD nose gear that had the sissors in the front of the strut and the 6" nose wheel. Same as the C-206.
 
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robertl

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Joined
May 5, 2017
Messages
372
Location
Heath Springs, S.C. USA
A pilot friend bought an Ariel Atom that never had been issued state tags. Apparently, it had lived in a race driving school its entire life.

Friend went to the local DMV to register it and get a tag. “Can’t be done.” Friend kept checking, and when a different DMV employee was at the window, he tried again. “Can’t be done.” Repeat one more time, “No problem.”

That thing sure was fun to drive.

BJC

Exactly, dealing with another person makes all the difference. "Yes, I think it can be easily done, just take it all down to Hwy 61!"
Bob
 

robertl

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Joined
May 5, 2017
Messages
372
Location
Heath Springs, S.C. USA
I have a van, bought in Oregon, driven to Texas during the onset of Covid-19, as the pandemic spread eastward. The title is obviously rat-chewed and it is at least 2 owners in arrears, on registration. Eventually, I'll be filling for a lost title...

FWIW, I overloaded the van with steel components and drove it mostly down hill on 35PSI-rated tires, with 65PSI in them, metal rattling all the way...
Get 'er done !
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2019
Messages
205
Get the case drawn before a Judge , tell him that if the airplane is not awarded to you immediately , it will be delivered in his driveway before he returns home that evening . Be sure he has a picture of his new winnings . My friend , you will be the new owner . :bow: 🐒
 

varivig

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Jan 14, 2022
Messages
7
As an update:

Getting nowhere. The original owner went to the court asking for the documents and got blank stares. You can't expect court employees to know anything about legal matters. I asked the FAA if a letter from the attorney who dealt with the estate, confirming that these are indeed the rightful heirs, would be acceptable. No - it is not acceptable to the FAA, it has to come from a court. This attorney has long since retired anyway.

They say if the estate went to probate, there should be letters Testamentary or something like it ; the estate never went to probate! There was a living trust established before he died and two of his children were trustees of the Living Trust. And it says exactly that on the bill of sale: "trustees of the Living Trust of..." . Not acceptable. They still want me to put a dead person's name as the seller...

I know the only way this is going to get resolved it by jumping through their hoops, but they keep moving them and now they6 are using invisible hoops too. I need Xanax....
Unelected bureaucrats flexing their minuscule intellect.
 

Monty

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Fayetteville, AR / USA
Unelected bureaucrats flexing their minuscule intellect.

This can be an advantage!

Just give them the right forms signed in the right way.........and like a magic spell..."these aren't the droids you're looking for".....it will be done. ;-)

Monty
 

PMD

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Apr 11, 2015
Messages
969
Location
Martensville SK
I'm going to be working thru the labyrinth this fall with one of my projects. Certified a/c, had an SBA loan against it. Got seized and sold in a Sheriff's auction. The guy I bought it from died prior to getting the title stuff cleared. Sheriff's Department doesn't have the auction records any more, as I am not a party to the SBA loan, I can't have any info about it, and no loan info in the FAA file, other than there is an SBA loan on the a/c. They guy that had the loan is dead....We shall see what transpires.
I like the nugget that appeared earlier in this thread. STORE the airplane in your custody, then proceed to acquire it by default of storage payments.
 

PTAirco

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Sep 20, 2003
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Corona CA
This can be an advantage!

Just give them the right forms signed in the right way.........and like a magic spell..."these aren't the droids you're looking for".....it will be done. ;-)

Monty

I thought that is exactly what I did. Now hey are asking me to make false statements on a Bill of Sale. They are also asking for Letters Testamentary or Letters of Administration. Those documents only come into play if the deceased left no will and it goes to probate. Not the case here: He left a living trust which means the courts never got involved and since they didn't, these documents do not exist. The Bill of Sale was signed by the trustees of the Living Trust; I sent a copy of the lawyer's letters showing them to be the trustees. They keep harping on about those Letters. it's mindboggling. And this guy is working for some kind of legal section of the FAA! He doesn't know what "probate" means?

Please don't tell me about correctly filled out and signed forms...
 

BBerson

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Dec 16, 2007
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Port Townsend WA
The seller signature listed on the Bill of Sale must match the name on the registration exactly. Is that the case?
Or does the registration list Smith Trust or something as the owner?
Just look up the N number online.
 

Monty

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Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
1,318
Location
Fayetteville, AR / USA
I thought that is exactly what I did. Now hey are asking me to make false statements on a Bill of Sale. They are also asking for Letters Testamentary or Letters of Administration. Those documents only come into play if the deceased left no will and it goes to probate. Not the case here: He left a living trust which means the courts never got involved and since they didn't, these documents do not exist. The Bill of Sale was signed by the trustees of the Living Trust; I sent a copy of the lawyer's letters showing them to be the trustees. They keep harping on about those Letters. it's mindboggling. And this guy is working for some kind of legal section of the FAA! He doesn't know what "probate" means?

Please don't tell me about correctly filled out and signed forms...

Yikes....sounds like you have moved past the low level storm troopers and are now dealing with the evil Sith lords at the main office.....that is more difficult, and beyond my magic to heal. Lord help you if you get two or three that don't really know what they are doing arguing with each other and sending you back and forth between them all. Perhaps you should sacrifice a chicken???

Frustrating I'm sure.
 

PTAirco

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Sep 20, 2003
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Location
Corona CA
Progress!

They now acknowledge that the forms they ask for would not exist in this case. But they will accept the heir-at-law from, signed by the executors and notarized.
This is what I already sent them in the first place!!! Six months ago.

I will return the forms to them and await the next round of idiocy.
 
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