O-100-- interesting new engine

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

Dan Thomas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,495
I note from your comment appended to your reply, implying this commentator may posses an education deficiency, however, not knowing what a heat recovery device is, may in it's self, indicate such a deficiency, and remaining within the Box in imagination is the sign of a "Real" education...
You could always enlighten us less-educated folks about this heat-recovery device that you know all about.

A turbocharger is a heat-recovery device. In wide use on piston engines.

Some of the last airliner radial engines used turbocompounding. There was a turbine wheel driven by the exhaust and connected directly, through gearing, to the crankshaft. Recovered energy from the waste heat.

The turbine wheels in a turbine engine are heat-recovery devices. In a turbojet engine they drive the compressor. In a turboshaft or turboprop engine there are extra turbine stages to extract more of the energy to drive the output shaft (helicopter use, typically) or the propeller. In turbofan engines they drive the fan.

All of these convert heat to mechanical output. The velocity and temperature of the gases after passing through these devices are much diminished, so they are all "heat-recovery" devices.

But you must mean something different that licensed aircraft mechanics, (like me) and degreed engineers (not me) don't know about. What is it?
 

Niels

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2019
Messages
253
You could always enlighten us less-educated folks about this heat-recovery device that you know all about.

But you must mean something different that licensed aircraft mechanics, (like me) and degreed engineers (not me) don't know about. What is it?
It is often termed a recuperated gas turbine.
 
Last edited:

Victor Bravo

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
11,382
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
What the heck does turbines, turbocompounding, turbochargers or turbojets or turbo-encabulators have to do with this particular engine?

Let's take those subjects and create another thread about heat recovery turbines and Dilithium Crystals... those things have nothing to do with this semi-antique niche powerplant, which was 100% intended for the light, slow, simple end of the aircraft spectrum.
 

Toobuilder

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
5,843
Location
Mojave, Ca
Indeed Bill. I'm amazed at the negativity towards this little engine. And unlike many of the vaporware renderings and their "projected" outlandish, physics defying performance claims that seem to be celebrated on this forum by the few enlightened "out of the box" visionaries, this little twin has been engineered, manufactured and flown. The fact that it was not rushed to market before testing - despite going against the grain in todays get rich on hollow promises ethic - is actually a credit to the designer.

I personally cant see myself behind one of these engines (does not fit any mission I'm interested in) but I fervently hope it comes to the market and finds a stable niche. We need more choices, not less.
 

Regdor

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
May 24, 2022
Messages
60
Indeed Bill. I'm amazed at the negativity towards this little engine. And unlike many of the vaporware renderings and their "projected" outlandish, physics defying performance claims that seem to be celebrated on this forum by the few enlightened "out of the box" visionaries, this little twin has been engineered, manufactured and flown. The fact that it was not rushed to market before testing - despite going against the grain in todays get rich on hollow promises ethic - is actually a credit to the designer.

I personally cant see myself behind one of these engines (does not fit any mission I'm interested in) but I fervently hope it comes to the market and finds a stable niche. We need more choices, not less.
Well said Toolbuilder, well said, however, consider this, maybe that rush to market was tempered
BY the testing and not due to the lack of a thorough examination.....Or....The product liability cost
were prohibitive.....
 

rv7charlie

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
3,363
Location
Pocahontas MS
Whatever gets your wheels up is fine, but....

The drawback for me would be simple price per HP. Custom case, custom crank, custom cam, custom who knows what else, and you still have to buy certified O200 pistons, rods, bearings, etc. I couldn't understand it the 1st time I saw it, back when the only alternatives in that space were 2strokes. I suspect that I wasn't the only one capable of doing the math. I understand it even less today, when there are quite a few off the shelf 4strokes that will get the job done with at most the addition of a reduction system. Then there's the fact that it's been coming 'any day now' for almost as long as the Zoche diesel.

But that's just me; you do you.
 

mm4440

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
326
Location
LA area, CA
Whatever gets your wheels up is fine, but....

The drawback for me would be simple price per HP. Custom case, custom crank, custom cam, custom who knows what else, and you still have to buy certified O200 pistons, rods, bearings, etc. I couldn't understand it the 1st time I saw it, back when the only alternatives in that space were 2strokes. I suspect that I wasn't the only one capable of doing the math. I understand it even less today, when there are quite a few off the shelf 4strokes that will get the job done with at most the addition of a reduction system. Then there's the fact that it's been coming 'any day now' for almost as long as the Zoche diesel.

But that's just me; you do you.
Can you point out the 60 hp 4 stoke alternatives with weight and cost?
 

PMD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
1,181
Location
Martensville SK
There is no question there is some kind of market for a lightweight 60HP engine, the question is just how many and at what price? While I really liked the HKS and Weslake (not so much the very underdeveloped Hexadyne iteration) engines and sure can see the purpose of the O-100, I have to say that this is an area of aviation where a smart builder can probably provide a snowmo or wet bike conversion far more cost effectively.
 

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
8,416
Location
US
Can you point out the 60 hp 4 stoke alternatives with weight and cost?
Is the O-100 up to 60hp now? Has there been new testing? Any testing?

There's widespread speculation and some reason to believe that the certified Continental O-200 itself does not produce 100 HP.

Pete has claimed 57 or 58 HP, now it has escalated again?

Cost: Probably best leave that issue alone until more is known about prices for the O-100.
 
Last edited:

mm4440

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
326
Location
LA area, CA
Is the O-100 up to 60hp now? Has there been new testing? Any testing?

There's widespread speculation and some reason to believe that the certified Continental O-200 itself does not produce 100 HP.

Pete has claimed 57 or 58 HP, now it has escalated again?

Cost: Probably best leave that issue alone until more is known about prices for the O-100.
Rounding. 2 0r 3 HP can be found easily.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
17,941
Location
Memphis, TN
The O-100 has been in front of us as a development project. It’s not as fast as we want it done like a YouTube video, but we have seen pictures of crankcase castings and crankshafts in batches. It’s not a cad drawing. Instead of building an airplane for himself in the garage at night, he was building an engine design. He proved he couldn’t give up his day job. Overall I don’t think he thought he was going to make any money doing it, otherwise it would have been much more top heavy with CEOs and fast talkers. He just ran out of time.

I do think it is not the simple idea it started to be by just whacking a wrecked case and crank in half; it ended up being a full design with a couple of common Continental parts. It’s good it didn’t get white washed.
What always seems so simple is never simple. Every RV crate ever cracked open stared off as it looks like it’s almost done, even a flat kit. Reality sets in when half the rudder is clecoed together. If it really comes to market or is sold as parts to a dozen people who can problem solve the rest, it’s further along than just about anything else.
 

Dan Thomas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,495
While I....sure can see the purpose of the O-100, I have to say that this is an area of aviation where a smart builder can probably provide a snowmo or wet bike conversion far more cost effectively.
Yup. A smart builder. One that knows what he's up against.

I have found that people who can design or build or fix things have become rare. Very rare. How many people do any of us know that can build a boat or an airplane or restore an old car, doing at least 90% of the work themselves? When I restored my Jodel I did ALL the work, from repairing the woodwork to replacing the fabric to overhauling the engine to sewing up new upholstery. When I restored my '51 International I also did all the work. Didn't farm out any of it. Even rebuilt a much newer Ford 300 for it and welded up engine and transmission mounts for it and replaced the 4.7 diff with an International 3.73 diff. Did the seat and interior, too. I've built six boats and restored a seventh. Busy building a bead blaster at the moment. It will be the second, with the first being 27 years ago.

And even I would not try to convert a snowmobile or bike engine to aviation use unless it was using a simple V-belt PSRU, something that would slip before TV tore it apart.
 

Dan Thomas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,495
There's widespread speculation and some reason to believe that the certified Continental O-200 itself does not produce 100 HP.

Pete has claimed 57 or 58 HP, now it has escalated again?
I flew a 90-HP Alon Aircoupe. Same power-to-weight ratio as a Cessna 150. That C-90 pulled harder and that airplane flew circles around the 150s.

The O-100 could generate more than 50 HP if it was run at 3000 RPM, maybe. But that means a smaller prop that is less efficient, and more HP is lost to prop drag instead of pulling the airplane. One of the C-90s secrets was that it redlined at a lower RPM than the O-200. From the TCDS for those engines:

1664157835634.png
 

Pops

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
11,495
Location
USA.
Yup. A smart builder. One that knows what he's up against.

I have found that people who can design or build or fix things have become rare. Very rare. How many people do any of us know that can build a boat or an airplane or restore an old car, doing at least 90% of the work themselves? When I restored my Jodel I did ALL the work, from repairing the woodwork to replacing the fabric to overhauling the engine to sewing up new upholstery. When I restored my '51 International I also did all the work. Didn't farm out any of it. Even rebuilt a much newer Ford 300 for it and welded up engine and transmission mounts for it and replaced the 4.7 diff with an International 3.73 diff. Did the seat and interior, too. I've built six boats and restored a seventh. Busy building a bead blaster at the moment. It will be the second, with the first being 27 years ago.

And even I would not try to convert a snowmobile or bike engine to aviation use unless it was using a simple V-belt PSRU, something that would slip before TV tore it apart.
Same here including auto automatic transmissions and 2 new houses doing everything except laying the foundation block. If I want to do it, if I don't know, I learn. Except I have never learned to sew any upholstery.
 

Tiger Tim

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
5,063
Location
Thunder Bay
I do think it is not the simple idea it started [as]…
I think this is the big lesson for anyone here who has ever posted, “Someone should just…”

Like a lot of things the O-100 project is probably doable just harder than it seems at first blush. Takes the right person to even start something like that let alone actually finish it.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
17,941
Location
Memphis, TN
Right, but there are real parts sitting in boxes. Someone did the hard work. Unluckily, something bigger happened. There just might be a reprieve.
 
Top