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O-100-- interesting new engine

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Victor Bravo

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What a coincidence, when I stood in Pete's office today and he showed me the CAD/Solidworks rendering of the engine, my wife asked me why I was making such noises and I said to her "This is like porn for airplane junkies".

Again, the quality of the parts is not fully evident in these photos.
 

Victor Bravo

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Well, that's the thing. Pete wants me to let everyone know that he is well aware of how many people are asking that question. This bears repeating: nobody on this planet wants this engine to be available for sale sooner than Pete Plumb does. For many reasons ranging from cash flow to market share to simply wanting to be a hero to his fellow homebuilders and aviation enthusiasts. But he is also absolutely adamant that no engine with his name on it will be sold to the public until the engine and all of its parts is the safest and most reliable it can be.

That's not just for legal liability reasons, it's because his reputation for everything that he builds has always been that it's done right. His aircraft woodwork is considered to be the very best in the country. The FAA considers Pete to be a trusted expert on wood structure, relying on his knowledge and personal integrity where flight safety is at stake. So even if it's a separate project involving an engine for experimental aircraft, he's not going to do anything that casts even the smallest shadow on that reputation.

So with all that said, there is no specific estimated delivery date. It will not be "years", but it will not be "weeks" either. Pete understood and agrees that the E-AB homebuilt market should not have to wait for the certified engine to be ready, but you (and me) will have to also understand and agree that nothing is going out the door until it is proven safe. Not just pretty, not just well thought-out, not just flying and sounding great... but proven with hard data. That's all I can say at this moment.
 

Vigilant1

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But he is also absolutely adamant that no engine with his name on it will be sold to the public until the engine and all of its parts is the safest and most reliable it can be.
Well, that's the answer! He could start rolling the kits out the door tomorrow as the "Ete-Pay Umb-Play Egasus-Pay" and give the eager beavers a chance to be his beta testers. He wouldn't be the first source of experimental acft engines to let buyers do the testing.
 

pictsidhe

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Proper testing really needs to wear out numerous engines, dozens? (That's your cue, Billski!)
Non-huge concerns will struggle with the cost of that. That's why wearing out a few engines in alpha test, then releasing a few dozen to selected beta testers makes sense.
 

Daleandee

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He wouldn't be the first source of experimental acft engines to let buyers do the testing.
True dat! The best of them (or the worst depending on your perspective) will then make more money charging the customer for upgrades and add-ons to fix problems that develop that should have been found during the testing phase ... and they can still sleep at night. :speechles

I applaud Pete's standard of integrity and hope he is extremely successful as he has a winning product to offer ...

Dale
N319WF
 

Victor Bravo

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That's why wearing out a few engines in alpha test, then releasing a few dozen to selected beta testers makes sense.
That is all true, but before ANYONE gets an alpha or beta test engine, Pete thinks that the main moving part, which he designed from scratch, should be tested to make sure it is as bullet-proof as he can make it.

It would look terrible and be terrible for business if one of the alpha or beta engines had a failure or premature wear-out of some component that woulda-shoulda-coulda been discovered with stress testing.
 

harrisonaero

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There's a saying with entrepreneurs that if you're not changing it during launch you've launched too late. I recommend Pete get a dozen or so testers under NDAs, non-competes, and hold-harmless agreements and use them to wring out the engines. If it were me the requirement would be that the initial engines only be used on proven airplanes that are currently registered and flying regularly (say a minimum of 20 hrs a month) and that logbook proof must be shown along with the owner's build/fly resume.
 

TFF

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At least two engines need to be given to some retired guys that just want to burn fuel. Pops needs his old wooden wonder back and rockiedog needs one on his LE. I'm sure there are plenty of people close by that can do the same thing. The only way to vet the engine is to fly it a bunch. A number out of the air needs to be picked as a goal line. If it's high like 1000 hrs, a flying party better be started. To get 15 hours a weekend every weekend plus some.
 

Pops

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At least two engines need to be given to some retired guys that just want to burn fuel. Pops needs his old wooden wonder back and rockiedog needs one on his LE. I'm sure there are plenty of people close by that can do the same thing. The only way to vet the engine is to fly it a bunch. A number out of the air needs to be picked as a goal line. If it's high like 1000 hrs, a flying party better be started. To get 15 hours a weekend every weekend plus some.
My son and I built another SSSC but he sold the project because he didn't have any time to work on it. A local friend of mine bought it and hasn't done anything to it. He's in his 80's and I don't think he will ever work on it. I ask him about buying it back. He says OK. I need to get the JMR finished and make room for it. I have flywheel drive 2180 engine started and need to finish it. The wings are finished,covered and painted, fuselage needs a little work in the cabin section and covered and painted and the tail surface needs covered and painted. I sure miss the SSSC. I need more hanger room. The Chrysler conv, 1981 3/4 ton truck, Dodge mini-van, and farm tractor takes to much hanger room along with the paint room and office room.
 

Highplains

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Based on countless R&D projects over the years, it is nearly impossible to fully test any product, but you do the very best you can under the constraints of time and budget. Watching this design develop from afar has been very enjoyable from my perspective, as considerable thought has obviously been expended in the design flexibility.

While the crankshaft seems to be the final linchpin in the design, I am not certain that static testing is the end all test. Gyroscopic loads from aggressive pitch and yaw changes may be worse. An engine test stand with a feedback controlled hydraulic driven gimbal mount would allow instrumented inputs in two planes.
 

pictsidhe

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How reliable does it have to be? Less than one in s thousand failing before TBO would need many engines given accelerated testing.
I don't know the failure rate for o-200s etc, but matching it will take a LOT of testing. Without huge resources, you'll need do some initial finger crossing.
 

Victor Bravo

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The crankshaft is going to go through a test that will put millions of dynamic load reversals on it over a short time, simulating the amount of loads and cycles that would have occurred during a normal TBO cycle.
 

Viper22

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If you look back on history ... Rotax had issues on the 277, 377, 477, 503, 582, 618, 912, Hirth had issues on cases, cylinders and crankshafts, HKS had issues where they recalled the engines and sent out new ones .... all these large companies did testing before hand and once in the consumer/user hands problems were identified and slowly resolved. Lycoming and Continental have had there fair share of problems. This reminds me of the story of the engineer who kept finding one more thing that he could change to improve the design ... after making that change/improvement then he'd find one more thing that could be changed to improve the design ... Moral of the story: there will always be one more things that can be changed to improve a design. Pete has a good, if not great, product that hopefully will be available soon.
 

BJC

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Even though I wrote this
I suspect that Pete could could find several willing and capable “beta testers” who would get a half dozen engines in the air quickly and amass enough operational experience to reduce the time-to-market.


BJC
I respect Pete for what he has accomplished so far, and for his insistence in not releasing the engine until he is satisfied that it has been developed to a point of reasonable safety.


BJC
 
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