Not so complicated but proven conversion?

[Vigilant1]

I was looking for a possible 0200 replacement and spec wise they are early identical.

I suppose a lot depends on what you are looking for in an engine.
The "reputation" factor you brought up earlier would be a highly significant factor in any choice I made.
Here's a comparison chart from Aeromomentum. I'm sure Jan would give different stats (but that goes to the point you raised earlier).


- Each Aeromentum is made of new parts, and has not been subject to consumer use in an automobile. Used engines can be reliable, I'm not disputing that.
- The Aeromomentum weighs 40 lbs less ("just" 35 lbs less by Jan's numbers--for what that's worth). 40 lbs is a lot.
- DOHC vs SOHC makes no difference in this application. Neither does VVT.
- Shorter stroke = lower piston speed at the same RPM.
- PSRU: I prefer the Aeromomentum design and trust the engineering that has gone into it.

 

[Rik-]

I suppose a lot depends on what you are looking for in an engine.
The "reputation" factor you brought up earlier would be a highly significant factor in any choice I made.
Here's a comparison chart from Aeromomentum. I'm sure Jan would give different stats (but that goes to the point you raised earlier).

View attachment 103267
- Each Aeromentum is made of new parts, and has not been subject to consumer use in an automobile. Used engine can be reliable, I'm not disputing that.
- The Aeromomentum weighs 40 lbs less ("just" 35 lbs less by Jan's numbers--for what that's worth). 40 lbs is a lot.
- DOHC vs SOHC makes no difference in this application. Neither does VVT.
- Shorter stroke = lower piston speed at the same RPM.
- PSRU: I prefer the Aeromomentum design and trust the engineering that has gone into it.

Thanks!

 

[TarDevil]

Please elaborate.

I was looking for a possible 0200 replacement and spec wise they are early identical.

Google is your friend. You won't have any trouble finding numerous instances of customers who ultimately ate the cost of a Viking engine to eventually go another path.
Mark Kettering (Aeromomentum) is forthcoming and informative. His engines are new... Vikings are not.
Not even a contest in my eye. Aeromomentum all the way.

Edited to add: Vigilant beat me to it and did it much better.

 

[pictsidhe]

Viking has checkered customer satisfaction. Aeromomentum has great customer satisfaction.

 

[mcrae0104]

Viking has checkered customer satisfaction. Aeromomentum has great customer satisfaction.

That may well be the case, but the code of conduct requests that we restrict ourselves to our personal experience. I have heard from customers of neither on this forum.

 

[Topaz]

plane Gross weight 1300#
Lighter engine would be my choice
80 - 100HP range
I have a 582 now.
looking to move to a 4 stroke and like the possibility of an auto engine.

Yeah, you're on the very upper end of the VW conversion power range. At least the "reasonably reliable" portion of the range. Probably want to go with a Corvair or a Subaru. A VW, as much as I like them, is likely to be a disappointment if you're asking this much of one.

 

[PagoBay]

That may well be the case, but the code of conduct requests that we restrict ourselves to our personal experience. I have heard from customers of neither on this forum.

THANKS.

There is ample discussion by real owners of both the Aeromomentum and the Viking engines on the Zenith Engine Forums. Also for the Corvair, or UL Power or Rotax or Jabiru or Lycoming or Continental. Much of the decision depends on airframe, mission, and personal preferences of the builder.

In terms on actual installations, which is the real deal, Viking has made an excellent contribution to the community. The continued references by a few to 20 year old Subaru history and other vague personal comments is not helpful and does not reflect well on HBA. Heck, lots of folks here have demonstrated very unique "personalities" but they contribute very well.

Also, note that there are more than a few engine swaps to the Viking on record. Jon Croke of HomeBuiltHelp being just one. Those owner/builders usually, but not always, needed extra power. Some had other reasons to switch. A bit of research will serve well.

Have a look here for some details on Viking customers, clearly very intelligent, discriminating and capable owner/builders. Just what HBA should be encouraging.

What is going on with Viking? Take a Look - May 24, 2019

 

[WindHorseRookie]

Anything bigger than the AM10 is going to do bad things to your useful load, unless you can shed a bunch of weight elsewhere.

It is a tail dragger, I have to be careful with weight gain or loss to keep the CG in check.

 

[WindHorseRookie]

THANKS.

There is ample discussion by real owners of both the Aeromomentum and the Viking engines on the Zenith Engine Forums. Also for the Corvair, or UL Power or Rotax or Jabiru or Lycoming or Continental. Much of the decision depends on airframe, mission, and personal preferences of the builder.

In terms on actual installations, which is the real deal, Viking has made an excellent contribution to the community. The continued references by a few to 20 year old Subaru history and other vague personal comments is not helpful and does not reflect well on HBA. Heck, lots of folks here have demonstrated very unique "personalities" but they contribute very well.

Also, note that there are more than a few engine swaps to the Viking on record. Jon Croke of HomeBuiltHelp being just one. Those owner/builders usually, but not always, needed extra power. Some had other reasons to switch. A bit of research will serve well.

Have a look here for some details on Viking customers, clearly very intelligent, discriminating and capable owner/builders. Just what HBA should be encouraging.

What is going on with Viking? Take a Look - May 24, 2019

While I do really like the Viking, it’s pretty pricey for the plane I have.

 

[Heliano]

Here in my country a new conversion is becoming popular - a Hyundai three-cilinder, turbo. The advantage? there are two:
1 - Very light engine. The whole installation including PSRU weighs 80Kgf (176lb)
2 - The turbo ensures higher power at high altitude. A non-turbo engine loses about 25% of its power each 10000ft; a turbo engine loses zero, for the first 10000ft.

 

[WindHorseRookie]

Here in my country a new conversion is becoming popular - a Hyundai three-cilinder, turbo. The advantage? there are two:
1 - Very light engine. The whole installation including PSRU weighs 80Kgf (176lb)
2 - The turbo ensures higher power at high altitude. A non-turbo engine loses about 25% of its power each 10000ft; a turbo engine loses zero, for the first 10000ft.

cost?

 

[TFF]

Can you be more specific on your plane? What is it? Has other engines powered other versions?

 

[mullacharjak]

The Aeromomentum 3 cylinder based on toyota/Daihatsu 1KR would look like the one to replace your 582.It weighs 139 Lbs. For economy one could buy the reduction drive from him and get the engine from junkyards.At my location these engines cost about 500 $.

 

[WindHorseRookie]

Can you be more specific on your plane? What is it? Has other engines powered other versions?

Plane is an Aerocomp Merlin GT , engine options are Rotax 582,912 amd a Cam100.

 

[TFF]

With the Cam100 being target for a O-200 Replacement, the Corvair would be the easiest. With the Cam I bet they had to ballast the tail. Length of engine is where the Corvair hurts the CG more than just weight.

You start getting into weeds with auto conversion as you are part of the engine team that has to make it work. A big VW with a prop drive could be an option, but with all this effort for auto engine, you could get a spare 582 and learn to be an expert on the type. You will have to have a maintenance program for any engine you put on; you don’t get to run away from your uncertainty, it’s just going to change issues.

If you are going to put 300 hours a year on, a four stroke would probably have less maintenance time devoted but for anything less than 50 hours a year, I think you already have a great engine. A spare ready within a year of needing it makes life a swap and go affair.

 

[WindHorseRookie]

With the Cam100 being target for a O-200 Replacement, the Corvair would be the easiest. With the Cam I bet they had to ballast the tail. Length of engine is where the Corvair hurts the CG more than just weight.

You start getting into weeds with auto conversion as you are part of the engine team that has to make it work. A big VW with a prop drive could be an option, but with all this effort for auto engine, you could get a spare 582 and learn to be an expert on the type. You will have to have a maintenance program for any engine you put on; you don’t get to run away from your uncertainty, it’s just going to change issues.

If you are going to put 300 hours a year on, a four stroke would probably have less maintenance time devoted but for anything less than 50 hours a year, I think you already have a great engine. A spare ready within a year of needing it makes life a swap and go affair.

I’m not sure how many I will be putting on it each year, not 300 I’m pretty sure.
I am learning more about the 582, I recently took the one I have down and checked the crank runnout,new outer Crank seals. Lightly cross hatched the cylinders, Put in new pistons and rings, had a ceramic water pump seal upgrade done, all new engine case and head seals. cleaned and put all new brass parts in carbs and rebalanced them.
I am pretty familiar with the 582, I like the design and operation of the engine. Ijust keep hearing the unreliability stories. My engine, because it’s cheap insurance will get lots of Inspections and maintenance.it runs smooth and has smooth acceleration with the new three blade prop(tractor) I always warm it up past 150*F and keep an eye on everything, log oil use per hour (totals and average not done yet) I like the thoughts of a 4stroke. But maybe if I talked to more guys that have had good success with the 582, I would feel more comfortable with it.

 

[Jerry Lytle]

How do you log oil use on a 582?

 

[PagoBay]

Here in my country a new conversion is becoming popular - a Hyundai three-cilinder, turbo. The advantage? there are two:
1 - Very light engine. The whole installation including PSRU weighs 80Kgf (176lb)
2 - The turbo ensures higher power at high altitude. A non-turbo engine loses about 25% of its power each 10000ft; a turbo engine loses zero, for the first 10000ft.

The Aeromomentum 3 cylinder based on toyota/Daihatsu 1KR would look like the one to replace your 582.It weighs 139 Lbs. For economy one could buy the reduction drive from him and get the engine from junkyards. At my location these engines cost about 500 $.

Exactly. Aeromomentum chose Toyota. Heliano's choice in Brazil is the Hyundai. Viking offers the 3 cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage engine. For those lacking time and skill, better to buy ready to bolt on. All well proven engines capable of more than 200,000 road miles if taken care of. With a bit of care and search, these "used" engines may have only a few thousand miles.

OP's weight concerns resolved?

First video - KITFOX with 90HP and custom motor mount.
Second video - Rans S-12 swapped from a Rotax 503 to Viking's Mitsubishsi 90HP.

 

[WindHorseRookie]

How do you log oil use on a 582?

I have a mark on the tank that I fill to. Just measure how much it takes to get back to that mark when refilling.

 

[WindHorseRookie]

Exactly. Aeromomentum chose Toyota. Heliano's choice in Brazil is the Hyundai. Viking offers the 3 cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage engine. For those lacking time and skill, better to buy ready to bolt on. All well proven engines capable of more than 200,000 road miles if taken care of. With a bit of care and search, these "used" engines may have only a few thousand miles.

OP's weight concerns resolved?

First video - KITFOX with 90HP and custom motor mount.
Second video - Rans S-12 swapped from a Rotax 503 to Viking's Mitsubishsi 90HP.

I guess I need to look up the weight of the Cam100 since that is an option it will give me a better idea for a weight.