Not so complicated but proven conversion?

[WindHorseRookie]

Hey guys, is there an auto conversion that is more simple, not so hard to find parts for, and proven?
or is there a “better” of the bunch engine to convert?

 

[rv6ejguy]

What weight and hp range?

 

[mcrae0104]

Volkswagen is certainly the most common. Corvair is also proven though not as ubiquitous. Both are straightforward and simple and you have conversion manuals, parts, and community support available.

Ross could tell you more about Subaru and perhaps some of the other water-cooled options that offer more power but come with the cost of a little more weight and complexity.

There are also some Mazda folks here too, and of course someone will probably jump in and suggest a mid-time Lycoming.

 

[WindHorseRookie]

What weight and hp range?

plane Gross weight 1300#
Lighter engine would be my choice
80 - 100HP range
I have a 582 now.
looking to move to a 4 stroke and like the possibility of an auto engine.

 

[Vigilant1]

If I wanted an auto engine for a 1300 lb plane, I'd either go with an Aeromonentum (based on Suzuki engines) or a Corvair ( if I wanted to do the build myself using W. Wynne's guidance or buy one from Azalea Aviation/Bill Clapp).

The Thatcher CX5s weigh about 1300 lbs gross and are flying with VW-based engines from Revmaster, so I suppose that might be a possibility. That's quite a bit to ask of a Type 1, and to make it work probably required a clean design so there's sufficient cooling air pressure at climb and cruise speeds.

 

[mcrae0104]

Corvair webinar: EAA

There are some good webinars on VWs too if you search around--though probably not a great option for 1300 lb.

 

[Vigilant1]

plane Gross weight 1300#
Lighter engine would be my choice
80 - 100HP range
I have a 582 now.
looking to move to a 4 stroke and like the possibility of an auto engine.

What is this 1300 lb airplane that flies with a 65 hp Rotax 582?

 

[cluttonfred]

I agree that the Aeromomentum or cheaper Airtrikes Suzuki conversions are worth a look. I am not a Corvair guy but I understand the appeal. The Revmasters are pretty nice but it does seem like more plane than is advisable for a VW. It's too bad nobody seems to be doing turnkey basic Subaru conversions anymore. The issue with larger auto conversions is you are going to end up competing with a used LyCosaur. You can find an old C-85 or C-90 or O-200 or even O-235 pulled for an engine upgrade and often get it flight-ready cheaper than the larger auto conversions.

 

[pictsidhe]

Aeromomentum.

 

[WindHorseRookie]

What is this 1300 lb airplane that flies with a 65 hp Rotax 582?

The gross is 1300
The flying weight as of now With the 582 is 1050, mfg GW is 1300.
I will be gaining weight with this new engine, so it will need to be capable of close to max takeoff weight.
sorry I should have been more clear.

 

[rv6ejguy]

I'd go with Aeromomentum if you can afford the weight and keep the C of G in a good place.

 

[PagoBay]

What aircraft do you have? Gross weight allowance is not the only factor.

Your plane with a Gross Weight of 1300# is quite usual. The Zenith Cruzer and STOL are both 1320# Gross Weight. These aircraft regularly fly with 130HP engines. Even the 1100# Gross CH701 has been fitted with 130HP engines with great results. Check out Jon Humberd's "Super 701" and Deane Phillip's "JUG" on YouTube.

The Zenith Forum has eight different engines, each with their own discussion section and all of which have been well accepted by builders.
Would recommend you spend some time reviewing the Zenith engines forum. Just sign up to be a member.

HIGHLY recommend this HBH video from Jon Croke of HomebuiltHelp for a comparison on takeoff with various engines in the CH701.
Can your Homebuilt Aircraft have Too Much Power? - See the FIRST Link below.
and
HomeBuiltHelp also has an excellent guide on how to make an engine choice. See the second link.

 

[TarDevil]

Another vote for Aeromomentum.
Unless you are mechanically adept a home grown auto conversion will eat a lot of time, money, and perhaps an airframe.

 

[Heliano]

Aeromomentum has good engineering behind it. And one more hint: fuel injected engines are substantially more efficient than engines with carburetors, let alone two-stroke engines. A typical carburetor-equipped Lycoming does .47lb/h/HP at best; a fuel-injected Aeromomentum (Viking 130 and Rotax 912 IS show similar numbers) easily does .38-.39 lb/h/HP. If the idea is a cross country aircraft, that is a huge difference.

 

[pictsidhe]

The gross is 1300
The flying weight as of now With the 582 is 1050, mfg GW is 1300.
I will be gaining weight with this new engine, so it will need to be capable of close to max takeoff weight.
sorry I should have been more clear.

Anything bigger than the AM10 is going to do bad things to your useful load, unless you can shed a bunch of weight elsewhere.

 

[rv6ejguy]

Aeromomentum has good engineering behind it. And one more hint: fuel injected engines are substantially more efficient than engines with carburetors, let alone two-stroke engines. A typical carburetor-equipped Lycoming does .47lb/h/HP at best; a fuel-injected Aeromomentum (Viking 130 and Rotax 912 IS show similar numbers) easily does .38-.39 lb/h/HP. If the idea is a cross country aircraft, that is a huge difference.

Stock injected Lycoming engines can deliver .42 BSFC figures running LOP in cruise, modified ones with higher CR and EFI/EI better than .36. Stock Conti IO-550 around .38. I'll be doing a YT video soon on BSFC comparing legacy SI engines, clean sheet SI aero engines and aero diesel engines.

 

[PagoBay]

I checked with someone who attended the recent October 2020 Zenith Factory Homecoming. I was told that UL Power and Viking, both 130HP and therefore heavier, were clearly the engines of choice. Jon Croke of HBHelp says it is important to talk to several folks who are flying the engine for a while. Once you have a short list, good to do that. The Zenith forum makes that easy.

 

[Rik-]

Just curious, why did no one recommend the viking (aka Honda) engines? Is it due to Jan's reputation with the Subaru engines in the past or??

 

[Vigilant1]

Just curious, why did no one recommend the viking (aka Honda) engines? Is it due to Jan's reputation with the Subaru engines in the past or??

Partly that (and Jan's reputation/ history did not end with his Subaru projects). But also, I don't see any advantages of the Viking product over the Aeromonentum product, and I see several significant disadvantages.

 

[Rik-]

Partly that (and Jan's reputation extends beyond his Subaru days). But also, I don't see any advantages of the Viking product over the Aeromonentum product, and I see several significant disadvantages.

Please elaborate.

I was looking for a possible 0200 replacement and spec wise they are early identical.