Non- Biased Engine Reviews -Viking

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pfarber

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DI still has issues that would make me stay clear for a while. Most of the newer DI implementations have not gotten to the 100k mark and even a simply google will show lots of manufacturers still having issues with it.

As for detonation... if you think lycosaur's are not detonating then you don't understand the problem. Just because you can't hear that pinging doesn't mean its not happening.
 

BoeveP51

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Merle,

We all know how far that is likely to go. Besides, I have not dog in this fight. Folks are telling us these engines are fine, and I have the nerve to ask for a decent basis for that assertion. With 94 known installs in the register, we should have some data. Anyone telling us that an engine is fine, I say "great, how many engines, how many hours, how many failures?" Until we either have a bunch of test cell time or fleet experience, we really do not know...

Billski
Billski,

I can't argue with your logic. You are the data analyst, not me. We will just have to see what data surfaces and determine what that data shows.

Also please understand this engine is in a Wittman Tailwind and not the Zenith. So any mods needed were done on my own. Of course I knew that going into this project.

For the 180 Turbo engine, I had the first one sold. So guess you can consider me the test base. Lots of ground testing and a learning process.
Had a lot of cooling problems that I worked through (radiator inlet design, etc) along with cooling issues with the intercooler. My air entry was not large enough in the end for the original intercooler. Made changes with Guide vanes for air entry and that improved the efficiency greatly. Just not down to where it was recommended. Then the engine decided to burp.

Jan gave me a new engine and I optioned to go with the newer 195Turbo. I remade the radiator inlet ductwork to allow more area for the air to slow down and added a rear door to control air flow. On the new engine my cooling is constant 205 deg. I have run on a hot day here in FL and did numerous high speed runs and the CAN data shows a flat line. Static runs at 4000 RPM (brakes won't hold it beyond that RPM) for 5 minutes show the same result.

With the bigger intercooler I really opened up the inlet and I am showing a dramatic improvement on efficiency. Goal is to keep the intercooler outlet temps below 100 deg. All my test runs have met that. On the high speed runs you can tell when I am reaching rotation as the temps start dropping. Flight data will tell the real story. I am working on an Arduino based unit to grab my radiator and intercooler data so I have some data to review. So far that effort is stalled.

So please don't go blaming Viking for a poor engine design. I suspect that most , if not all, issues could be passed back to me. I can't call out for answers to problems because nobody has done what I am doing. Very similar possibly, and I try to get info wherever I can. Ross provided me with a lot of radiator information and that has been a tremendous help.

I am very appreciative for Jan's work and support. He has not charged me a dime for any of the improvements he has made to either the engine or PSRU. If I am having an issue he has always been happy to assist. His history might be checkered but his performance with me has been excellent.

Also I read a comment that Jan is not using a knock sensor. Well that statement is false. Both of my engines had/have a knock sensor and the ECU uses the data. As far as fuel management is concerned. I don't have that info so I will not speculate.

As I continue down this experimental road I would be happy to share experiences. I just will not put up with the "back seat drivers". If those folks haven't done what I am doing then please don't tell me what I should be doing. I will be happy to provide information and receive information. I just have to find the correct person to ask.
 

proppastie

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My history in this forum has been very light in terms of comments due to the fact that there are so many "experts"
well I like it....its not a cheer leader for the industry or any specific brand.....The more time I spent here the better I got at filtering out the noise from good advise......
 

proppastie

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cooling issues with the intercooler. My air entry was not large enough in the end for the original intercooler. Made changes with Guide vanes for air entry and that improved the efficiency greatly. Just not down to where it was recommended.
Does Jan offer guidance on these issues other than the recommended temp. say inlet/outlet sizes etc.? .....or does Zenair?
 

proppastie

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The engine is in a Tailwind
yes but any guidance from anyone on these issues might help as a point of reference.....should this information be provided to the customer considering safety aspects?
 

BJC

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My history in this forum has been very light in terms of comments due to the fact that there are so many "experts" that try to tell me everything I should know, almost every time something is stated.
As I continue down this experimental road I would be happy to share experiences. I just will not put up with the "back seat drivers". If those folks haven't done what I am doing then please don't tell me what I should be doing. I will be happy to provide information and receive information. I just have to find the correct person to ask.
HBA is no different from the bunch of guys (and gals) who gathered behind my hangar for coffee this morning. Each one has an opinion, that he/she thinks very highly of, and is eager to share it in conversation. The trick is to separate the good information from the BS. That get easier to do once one gets to know the others in the conversation. This morning, Steve (working on his 27th homebuilt, has one going into the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum) was coaching a neighbor, who is assembling a WACO Taperwing kit, on how to splice the leading edge plywood skin. The best information available on the subject; everyone listened.

Stick around. Share what you are doing. Teach others. Learn from others. Retain the good stuff. Ignore the BS, although, sometimes, the BS in Hangar Flying can be fun, too.

And to everyone: I encourage you to fill out the “About” fields so we can more easily learn about each other.


BJC
 

BoeveP51

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Does Jan offer guidance on these issues other than the recommended temp. say inlet/outlet sizes etc.? .....or does Zenair?
Yes, Jan did offer input to the issue. He recommended a larger input. This was not a simple fix as there would be major cowl changes. I was going to do it but fate stepped in and made me change it sooner rather than later.
 

Arkan

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This all very interesting, Viking, AeroMomentum, and other alternative engine sources do have some valid points. How do we advance aviation technology without trying new or alternative systems. Now a few on here know I don't fly, not from a lack of desire but from a lack of resources. But I love aviation, and enjoy the challenge of design. So that is what I do. Data is definitely needed, if I believed passionately enough in my own product, all would place it to the test, share my testing data.... give me accurate dyno testing results, and set several of the engines on a test stand and run them at full power until they failed and record how long they lasted. If I upgraded any part for reliability, make sure it is test in the same manor, these kinds of duribility test and sharing this data with your customers, gives them piece of mind and if your product is good, then it helps sell the product. An if there is an issue with one of your engines, go find out the cause, contact the customer, ask to inspect the failed engine. And if you have major failures, then report it, do a failures per hours flown report, the cause of the failure, how to avoid or if a correction is need, the contact the customers.

I say this because I have been researching engines for a design I am working on, and finding this kind of data is impossible. I have even poured through FAA reports, still no data. Anyways, I am not going to speak out for or against any company or their product, but if I am putting my life, or the life of my friends and family in the air, then I want facts and assurance on the safety of the power plant I am flying behind.
 

rv7charlie

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their own boats or were the customers testing the un-tested products?
That phrasing kinda smells like 'when did you stop beating your wife'. ;-)

My personal preference is to see it as letting potential a/c customers see independent, real world verification of durability & reliability. That's very different from using customers as the actual test cell, as has happened with some vendors.

Doing thousands of hours on a test stand just isn't going to happen in our field. It's not even happening in the certified aviation realm with its astronomical cost of acquisition; at least not these days, with piston powerplants. The ROI for the vendor just isn't there.
 

proppastie

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That's very different from using customers as the actual test cell, as has happened with some vendors.
That was what perhaps the poorly worded post 16 was about......Who are the "some vendors" ....
 
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Arkan

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My policy is if you don't break it you don't know where the weak points are. You design an aircraft you intend to sell,,,, start building and start dropping them. Drop it 100 ft on its, nose, drop it flat. Send it at a steep angle into the ground. Find the weak spots, find where it is going to break, find where it fails, this is how you improve your design, this is where you begin to make better products. Okay I will step off my soap box.....
 

Voidhawk9

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Drop it 100 ft on its, nose, drop it flat. Send it at a steep angle into the ground. Find the weak spots, find where it is going to break
If you build an aircraft strong enough to survive all of that, it will be heavier than a main battle tank, and will never be able to fly.
 

Arkan

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If you build an aircraft strong enough to survive all of that, it will be heavier than a main battle tank, and will never be able to fly.
it is not about making the aircraft survive, it better understand how when and where the frames breaks and building it so the pilot and passengers survive, or at least have a better chance of it.
 

BBerson

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The certified engine needs to test run again for each engine-prop combination or measured with instrumentation.
No requirement for experimental but the pilot should understand and be prepared for dead stick anytime, even after 150 hrs.
 

Voidhawk9

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No requirement for experimental but the pilot should understand and be prepared for dead stick anytime, even after 150 hrs.
True of certified engines as well. 'Infant mortality' isn't unheard of even with these old, proven engines.
 

charosenz

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Feb 19, 2019
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Magnolia KY
I have currently have the HD Viking PSRU on a turbo charged1.8L Honda engine in my RV6A that just approached the 100 hour mark (85 hours flying). I have had no problems with the PSRU or engine. I started out with the standard PSRU but after about 20 hours of testing I felt it was prudent to up grade to Vikings HD gearbox. (For the record this is not a Viking provided Honda engine.)

I would caution readers to this thread to recognize that most people who post here have no first hand knowledge or experience on Viking engines or PSRU. I have to tell you that as a person who has a Viking PSRU it is not an enjoyable (or helpful) experience to post comments when you have a ton of folks who have little or no direct knowledge on the topic to offer fatherly type advice about what you should or should not do, etc.)

I am not here to support or defend Viking necessarily but to offer direct knowledge of my experiences. My observations are that most of the people who actually have direct user experience with the Viking engines/PSRU have positive experiences. (being an EAA member since 1981 Yes I am familiar with Jan's past work on Subes....)

Charlie Rosenzweig
Magnolia Ky
N327WC.
 

PagoBay

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Bill-Higdon said:
I caught Alissa claiming the BD-4 had a fiberglass landing gear, after I proved it was aluminum by providing a copy of the BOM the whole thread disappeared. That told me a lot about the "new Eggenfelner"
Actually the BD-4C does use a fiberglass main gear. I believe it's made by Grove.
Bryan is correct. I note Bill's interesting choice of language, as in.... "I Caught...." A bit over the top?

Regarding the referenced exchange with Viking, sure that is Alissa at work, who is indeed a new Mrs. Eggenfellner. What you saw there with the thread deletion is simply what happens when argument is the primary purpose. Pressing on about landing gear with a company that sells engines??

Here is a video on a 4 seat BD-4, maybe the same aircraft, installing the Viking 195 Turbo engine.
 
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