Non- Biased Engine Reviews -Viking

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Rhino

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Okay, now I'm really getting interested. 40 lbs lighter than the Viking and no header tank. Less expensive too. Maybe I haven't made my final engine choice yet. Thanks, Vigilant1.
 

Richard Roller

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One quick clarification: FAA's policy is: if there is technology available to meet the reliability numbers in AC 23.1309, the reliability numbers are a requirement; if there is NO technology to meet those numbers, then the maximum that can be achieved is acceptable. Obviously piston engine technology does not allow an engine which, as a unit, meets the 10^5 criteria. Therefore the attainable piston engine reliability today - 1 failure in 10000-13000 hours - is acceptable. But the idea is to do whatever possible to meet those numbers. That AC is common sense. As for turboprops and turbofans, that is a whole different ball game. P&W PT6 reliability average is around 1 IFSD in 330000 hours, and big turbofans such as the GE90 (Boeing 777) are 1 IFSD in more than half a million hours. Interesting to remember that, 65 years ago, turbo compound radial engines (such as in the DC-7 and in the Super Constellation) could barely meet 1 failure in 1000 hours!
My dad was an airline mechanic (mostly engines) during the DC-7/Super Connie turbo compound days. His opinion was that the turbo jets saved the airlines, despite their initial costs. They couldn't meet the advertised cross continent times and keep the recip engines together.

In my own experience I've worked on many airliners with well over 100000 hours and 130000+ cycles.
 

Vigilant1

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Doesn't take more than a single person with a chip on their shoulder (deserved or undeserved) to make such participation very unpleasant.
Definitely, it could be very unpleasant for the proponent/seller. But highly informative for everyone else. Readers who are seriously considering an engine purchase are generally smart enough to sift through the vitriol and personality "issues" to make their own judgement about the validity of any criticisms.
In my experience, it is possible to learn a lot about a business from its critics and its customers (all of them). More importantly, seeing how the business responds to valid criticism, right out there in the open, is very illuminating.
 

Wanttaja

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That is the trouble with facebook.The truth can be covered up by admins.
That's not unique to Facebook. The mods here, for example, do delete postings that they feel violate the standards for the HBA forum. I manage a mailing list where I can also delete messages that don't meet the standards, and even not allow people to post unless their messages are compliant. It ain't Facebook's fault.

Ron Wanttaja
 

rv7charlie

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Moderation questions are a little bit 'in the weeds', but worthy of careful consideration. I finally quit contributing to a prominent experimental forum because of the politically highly biased 'moderation' by the (for profit) list owner & his minions. His guidelines say 'no political content', but comments of one leaning stay up until publicly challenged (and sometimes even after), while comments of other leanings are deleted instantly. I submit that it is virtually impossible to be unbiased when 'moderating' discussions involving politics actually, virtually *anything*. We're human; we have opinions about everything. That's why my opinion is that there should at most be moderation of comments of an offensively personal nature (civil discourse).

A discussion forum controlled by the person who profits from it is worse than worthless, regardless of platform.

On reputation: I think Jim Bede really was a brilliant designer, but I wouldn't have trusted him with coffee money. His thieving didn't stop with the BD5; a friend of mine lost money to him by giving him a deposit on the BD12/14 series (I know; you've never even heard of them, right?). With guys who are still 'in the business', if they've effectively stolen from purchasers of every prior product iteration, I have no reason to expect they'll act any differently if (when) current products start developing problems. The common 'truth' when I was a kid was that banks didn't lend on the ability to repay; they lent on the borrower's reputation of having the moral commitment to repay. I approach my business transactions with that in mind.
 

Bill-Higdon

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My dad was an airline mechanic (mostly engines) during the DC-7/Super Connie turbo compound days. His opinion was that the turbo jets saved the airlines, despite their initial costs. They couldn't meet the advertised cross continent times and keep the recip engines together.

In my own experience I've worked on many airliners with well over 100000 hours and 130000+ cycles.
It was the Turbine both Turbo Jets & Turbo Prop, I remember the schedule problems with the piston powered Convairs, when theywet to turbo prop schedue problems went way down.
 

proppastie

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back to Honda aircraft engines, and Jim Bede...seems to me there was a Honda conversion in the Bede 5 .......any knowledge here about that?
 

Rhino

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...I submit that it is virtually impossible to be unbiased when 'moderating' discussions involving politics actually, virtually *anything*...
Certainly true for politics. I used to own a political forum, and there were always claims of biased moderation, from both sides.
 

Brünner

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Definitely, it could be very unpleasant for the proponent/seller. But highly informative for everyone else. Readers who are seriously considering an engine purchase are generally smart enough to sift through the vitriol and personality "issues" to make their own judgement about the validity of any criticisms.
In my experience, it is possible to learn a lot about a business from its critics and its customers (all of them). More importantly, seeing how the business responds to valid criticism, right out there in the open, is very illuminating.
Very true. A business attitude towards a customer which received bad service/product speaks volumes about its honesty and integrity.
 

Victor Bravo

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Bede may have been a brilliant engineer, or not. I watched the Burt Rutan EAA series of interviews, and watched the one with his memories of working at Bede.

Now (love him or hate him) Burt is a brilliant engineer, and Burt has a fairly healthy ego, but even setting all this aside the stories he told about how Jim Bede did things, how he viewed integrity, and how he felt about building a safe product spoke volumes.

If you watch the Rutan interview on his time at Bede, then watch Bede's old-old sales/promotional movie "Pieces of a Dream", you may not come away with a high opinion of Bede's interest in public safety.
 

PagoBay

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NON-BIASED REVIEWS --
Zenith has separate, dedicated forum sections for eight different engine choices.
The entire Zenith forum is moderated by John Austin, who has no affiliation with the Zenith Factory or any of the engine suppliers.
The engine forum sections are open to the suppliers but are fully independent from and in no way controlled by these engine suppliers.


Super easy to interact directly with builders and flying owners there.

Here is a recent video with four Texas owners actively flying the Viking engine.

Also see Adam Andrews, who recently switched from a Titan engine to the Viking 195 Turbo for his Zenith SuperDuty build.
 

Vigilant1

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NON-BIASED REVIEWS --
Zenith has separate, dedicated forum sections for eight different engine choices.
The entire Zenith forum is moderated by John Austin, who has no affiliation with the Zenith Factory or any of the engine suppliers.
The engine forum sections are open to the suppliers but are fully independent from and in no way controlled by these engine suppliers.
Yes, prospective buyers should go there. It is clear that John Austin has his hands full, especially as Zenith has an interest in maintaining good relationships with various engine suppliers. See how Jan and Allissa barge into the threads started by Aeromomentum builders on the Aeromomentum portion of the forum in order to insert marketing for Viking. Shameful.
The leopard does not change his spots.
 
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starrtit

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To Ron Wanttaja;
Glad to see your post so I can also post for something you are very familiar with.
I have read where folks with an a65 Cont. with prop adapter asking " how to measure" the 90# torque. Ok here is how I do it,stand on a bathroom scale, place a 12" rod into the adapter holes, hold the rod 12" from the adapter,tighten and read the scale you are standing on, when it reads 90# less , you are putting 90# of torque to the prop adapter.

Albert
 

BoeveP51

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I just ran across this posting and after reviewing the comments versus the title “Non- Biased Engine Reviews -Viking”, I decided it was time to offer my review of Viking.

One of the major problems I have with the previous posting content is that 99% is opinion and conjecture with no basis . Secondly I really hate to publish any info on these forums because the audience, for the most part, loves to tear apart any comments made with zero justification. So I just read and laugh typically.

Yes, Jan has a history, some of it is good and some not so good. His Subaru legacy left many with some bad feelings and too be honest I was skeptical for a long time regarding any dealings with Jan. But after researching a bit of history the outcome was not totally Jan’s doing. The economic hit the country had during that period ruined a number of companies, Jan included. But I will say one thing. - He came back with an even better product and his business model appears to be working.

I own a Viking engine – The 195 Turbo engine. I started out with the 180HP version and upgraded to the 195T. This is installed on a Wittman Tailwind W10 with tricycle gear. I have owned and played with this configuration for about 3 years so I have what would be considered “hands on” experience with the engine and the support provided by Viking.

Additionally over this period I have seen numerous innovations, upgrades to his engine, improvements in performance, etc.

I have gone thru 2 engines, 3 PSRU units (improvements to the design) and mods to both the engine and PSRU. All of this was accomplished with ZERO issues. Viking has been very open and supportive when I had a question or problem.

I have not heard anyone else on here make comments that has directly interfaced with Jan so I am not sure how you can make any comments, good or bad, relative to his interactions with customers or would be customers.

In any case my interaction has been nothing but positive. He stands behind his product. He very aggressively supports his products.

Rumor has it that he has more engines installed with Zenith than any other brand. Suggest you ask Zenith. That should give you some indication. The company is pumping out engines. If you want to know where they are then go check out his web site and look at his customer map. You will probably find one in your area that you can speak with and get their opinion. Then base your comments on real information rather than innuendo.

Just my thoughts….
 
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