No bill of sale

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

Wolfen1176

Active Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
37
I have an opportunity of picking up a previously flying RV that was abandoned in a hangar, of course the plane does not come with a bill of sale signed off by the previous registered owner. Are there any ways around that or would it be doomed to never fly again?
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,802
Location
Memphis, TN
Someone will have to have attached legal rights to it like a lien for storage to make it easy. Not saying it can’t be done another way. Depends on price. What it’s worth as parts would be as high as I would go. Unless you can get family of the owner to sign it over to you. Circumstances are important.
 

kent Ashton

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
797
Location
Concord, NC
If you can't prove a chain-of-title from the last registered owner, I would let that one pass. I have seen an RV that was gifted to a museum, engine removed, wiring cut off at the firewall and AWC surrendered. It returned to life with an owner who bought it from the museum. I suppose he produced a chain of title from the original builder/gifter to the museum, to him, that was satisfactory to the FAA document examiners. The new owner knew the N-number and after he got title, he applied for a replacement AWC.

Find the last person, or an heir, who had title to the airplane. If it was abandoned and sold in a legal sale, perhaps that would be adequate chain-of-title if you prove the sale documentation.
 

Wolfen1176

Active Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
37
Supposedly the airport has permission from the court but they are still saying no bill of sale.
 

kent Ashton

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
797
Location
Concord, NC
Interesting question. The surest way, IMO, is to find the last registered owner, or whomever inherited his property in a probate, and give that person a few hundred bucks to fill out an FAA bill of sale. The last owner may have given up his right to the airplane in some legal hangar eviction but if a court order does not identify the airplane and specifically authorize the airport to sell it, then I imagine the FAA considers it still owned by the last registered owner. Since the last owner has lost his right to the airplane anyway, he might go for it. Just guessing.
 

WonderousMountain

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
2,453
Location
Clatsop, Or
US, what you get is Quit-claim Deed.

You are not technically the owner, but
the courts grant assurance against all
takings at equity value. So it is not too
bad. Just got to nudge it forward.
 

pwood66889

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
1,952
Location
Sopchoppy, Florida, USA
Got a `coupe with records (at last look) but is held up in probate. It is out in the rain (with huricane season coming on) and may not be worth much when the heir(s) get it through court. Can be tricky, but a good buy - at least up to your best guess as to what the parts would bring.
 

Tiger Tim

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
4,024
Location
Thunder Bay
I have an opportunity of picking up a previously flying RV that was abandoned in a hangar, of course the plane does not come with a bill of sale signed off by the previous registered owner. Are there any ways around that or would it be doomed to never fly again?
Talk to your local registering authority on this one, and be prepared to ask a different office if you don’t like the answer. Perhaps there’s a way to do it through an affidavit of ownership.
 

Cardmarc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2021
Messages
65
Ok, here’s a specific situation. Unregistered incomplete kit purchased from original owner. When N# applied for, FAA says ‘ bill of sale’ not good enough! All that was bought was ‘parts’. Any BOS should suffice, no?
 

Daleandee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
1,600
Location
SC
Ok, here’s a specific situation. Unregistered incomplete kit purchased from original owner. When N# applied for, FAA says ‘ bill of sale’ not good enough! All that was bought was ‘parts’. Any BOS should suffice, no?
I can't answer your specific question but I bought an incomplete kit from the original buyer and all that was required was paperwork traceability back to the manufacturer i.e. proof that the person I got it from bought it from the manufacturer. Mine too had an N number reserved but that was easy enough to change as I had reserved a number and requested to use it instead.

I actually found the folks in Oklahoma to be quite friendly and efficient but I did have a hiccup to deal with (but that's another story for another thread). It was cleared up pretty quickly but sometimes it just takes a bit of patience and perseverance (something that seems to be lacking a lot these days).
 

Fiberglassworker

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2021
Messages
47
Look for somebody who can file a lien on the aircraft ( Hanger owner or mechanic.). They must file a copy at the county courthouse, they send a copy of that lien to the FAA. When the term of the lien expires ,the lienholder puts the aircraft up for public auction. Remember the lienholder cannot bid on the aircraft. If you win the aircraft the lienholder takes out the money he/she is owed, then returns any surplus to the debtor. The FAA will only accept a mechanics lien for 90 days after the bill was presented , so you are better off with the hangar owner, who can file a current lien with the total debt. The FAA will then issue a new title, at the same time telling you they are not in the business of determining ownership.
 

pfarber

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
876
Location
Dollywood
Supposedly the airport has permission from the court but they are still saying no bill of sale.
A call to a lawyer should get you a search to turn up the judges order that you can read and have them determine the exact legal disposition of the aircraft.

The airport manager most likely is just not familiar with what to do and thinks that saying 'no bill of sale' somehow would protect them. If they had a lien on the AC for fees then they need to follow the lien process to properly sell the property.

Unless its your perfect aircraft, I wouldn't spend more than $100 to find out why the manager is not doing his job properly.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,802
Location
Memphis, TN
If the airport is selling with no bill of sale, they are not acknowledging the sale. They are just letting it disappear quietly. That means they will not take responsibility for the sale. I think it could put you in the theft game under bad circumstances.
 

pfarber

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
876
Location
Dollywood
If the airport is selling with no bill of sale, they are not acknowledging the sale. They are just letting it disappear quietly. That means they will not take responsibility for the sale. I think it could put you in the theft game under bad circumstances.
If you really wanted the drama in your life:

Write a check to the airport and put in the notes the N number or serial number or some other reference to the AC. This would not be a proper bill of sale, but would document that the airport did give you the property and that you did not steal it.

But since the AC is registered, and the airport is playing fast and lose, this better be your perfect life long AC to go through the hassle of getting legal/proper title to the property.
 

Hephaestus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
2,336
Location
YMM
With a court ordered sale - shouldn't that order (assuming serial # or N number are clearly stated) be adequate?
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,802
Location
Memphis, TN
Years ago my airport flooded. Everyone left the airport when the corp of engineers said we will get wet. There was a wrecked VK30 turbine that had a long pending court case on it, and it went under water. It was pretty much scrap to the elements anyway beforehand. After the waters receded, a call to a local A&P school and all it took was a trailer and a sawzall and it was gone. No paper. No money. Out of the airport managers hair. Who says it was Court ordered sale?
 
Top