# New tilt-rotor design from Diamond

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#### don january

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
This plane is very interesting but I see one major drawback, it is a craft that has the designer and owner's looking for one thing. MONEY \$ the drawback is to "us" the pilot's whom love to build and fly. I can't phantom the cost of such a plane. I don't see too many every day Joe's that could even buy the prop's! or even fly it.

#### JamesG

##### Well-Known Member
Yeah.... I'll believe it when a prototype is flying. Proposals and "projects" are cheap. And "computer control" for a tandem tilt-rotor will be pretty much required, not an option.

#### Tiger Tim

##### Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to see how long it actually takes to develop if they go ahead with it. Just look at the conceptually similar Bell/Boeing/Agusta-Westland 609 and how long they've had that prototype buzzing around and taking orders for whenever it does get certified.

Or, it could turn out the market thought they wanted something that they didn't actually want. See the D-Jet...

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
I think the important thing is that every time a company the size of Diamond instigates a program such as this, there's always innovations found along the way for future benefit regardless of if the main program is a failure or not.

##### Well-Known Member
Diamond has had a long stretch of overreached prototypes, think of the DA50/52 (pressurized, single and twin combo).

It this were a serious attempt, they'd use a DA42 with tip-mounted prop-rotors and save the majority of the cost and development time, such that they could focus on FBW and the hybrid propulsion and start with a proven, safe airframe.

#### Doggzilla

##### Banned
HBA Supporter
Diamond has had a long stretch of overreached prototypes, think of the DA50/52 (pressurized, single and twin combo).

It this were a serious attempt, they'd use a DA42 with tip-mounted prop-rotors and save the majority of the cost and development time, such that they could focus on FBW and the hybrid propulsion and start with a proven, safe airframe.
Thats what I would really like to see. A twin with the gross takeoff of a single would be more than acceptable if it could VTOL. It would still have full functionality when using a full size landing strip, so why not? The useful load of a single is better than none at all.

#### bmcj

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Diamond has had a long stretch of overreached prototypes, think of the DA50/52 (pressurized, single and twin combo).

It this were a serious attempt, they'd use a DA42 with tip-mounted prop-rotors and save the majority of the cost and development time, such that they could focus on FBW and the hybrid propulsion and start with a proven, safe airframe.
That would probably require a full redesign of the wing structure and attach fittings. In this case, I think a clean sheet design might be the easiest route.

##### Well-Known Member
That would probably require a full redesign of the wing structure and attach fittings.
The big advantage is that those are the only major changes. New spar design, thicker wing skins and thicker attachment points.
Stability & control, virtually all systems, other structure, all aero remain identical (and proven).
In this case, I think a clean sheet design might be the easiest route.
New molds, tooling, full structural evaluation? That's easily a ten-fold increase in development cost. (At least Diamond estimated that difference between the DA52 development and then converting it to the DA50)

#### JamesG

##### Well-Known Member
Of course it depends on who the "unnamed major industrial partner" is and how well heeled and what they bring to the table?

If you squint, you can see most of a D-Jet in that artist's rendering of the concept.

#### Topaz

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
Okay, I'm ready to start the pool on when this aircraft will actually fly. I've got the "never" square. Who's in on this action? :gig:

I've seen so many of these things over the years that my cynicism has reached epic proportions. This is an idea that Diamond is using to test the investment waters. I'd be completely amazed if they actually intended to build anything like that artist concept.

#### JamesG

##### Well-Known Member
I might bite when/if they announce who the mysterious partner is.

They did get tongues a flapping and fingers a wriggling didn't they? Mission accomplished!

#### Topaz

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
... They did get tongues a flapping and fingers a wriggling didn't they? Mission accomplished!
Exactly. If it wasn't for gauging investment potential, this was a simple exercise in "keeping the brand visible".

#### oriol

##### Well-Known Member
Since the AW60 is expected to be comecially available "soon" once both the test and certification process are completed.

It is to be expected that by the time Diamond will have a working first prototype the very specific niche market at wich this aircraft is designed for will allready be filled by the AgustaWestland tilt rotor aircraft.

The idea of using a four tiltrotor hybrid aircraft is more on line with Luftwaffe wonder weapons/DARPA projects than anything intended for general aviation use, at least to this day.
To develop this Diamond would need substantal finantial backing wich only can come from the government/tax payers.

Oriol

##### Well-Known Member
With Siemens backing them up... who knows?

#### Starjumper7

##### Well-Known Member
which he says will be propelled by two high-output Siemens electric motors
I doubt this. It looks like it has 4 motors and I'm sure they would not want central motors with transmission systems to the wing tips.

#### Doggzilla

##### Banned
HBA Supporter
I doubt this. It looks like it has 4 motors and I'm sure they would not want central motors with transmission systems to the wing tips.
Thats actually one of the points of going with hybrid, that different power layouts can be used.

#### bmcj

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
With Siemens backing them up... who knows?
Until Airbus decides they want to jump into the tilt rotor market and squashes Diamonds supply line from Siemens.

#### JamesG

##### Well-Known Member
Since the AW60 is expected to be comecially available "soon" once both the test and certification process are completed.

It is to be expected that by the time Diamond will have a working first prototype the very specific niche market at wich this aircraft is designed for will allready be filled by the AgustaWestland tilt rotor aircraft.
Maybe, maybe not if they can build a better, newer mousetrap. And its a very lucrative niche market. The ultra-wealthy have lots of money for status-symbol toys.

To develop this Diamond would need substantal finantial backing wich only can come from the government/tax payers.
Again it depends on who the secret partner is. Its quite possible for them to do this in the timeframe as a lean "skunkworks" project if they have plenty of resources. The tech is there, its mostly just an integration problem.

With Siemens backing them up... who knows?
We don't know if Siemens is backing them up, or if they just dropped the name because they make e-motors...