New lightweight 120 hp engine?

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by SpainCub, Mar 13, 2013.

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  1. Mar 21, 2013 #21

    DangerZone

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    Yes, you are right about the exact angle, I was talking about the optical illusion that we have watching from the side. What I meant is that many Ducatis seem to have an angle greater than 90 degrees and closer to a 100 degree angle. There were Moto Guzzis in the past with 120 degree V angle but most of the modern V motors for motorcycles need a smaller angle for compactness.

    Good find. ;)

    So, it is a V2 Morini based but a new concept and crankcase, what other changes have they made? The gearbox is out and a PSRU seems to be a part of the motor case. Is there a diagram showing how they made the PSRU?

    I don't see the phrase 'monopolized by a single German brand called Beemer' offending, is it supposed to be? :D
     
  2. Mar 21, 2013 #22

    nerobro

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    Your brain is weird. :)
     
  3. Mar 21, 2013 #23

    autoreply

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    After a good Pelinkovac you'll understand ;-)
     
  4. Jul 22, 2014 #24

    Jan Olieslagers

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    I visited the factory recently, and was given a shiny glossy brochure (but the text is in Italian only). It pleases me that no power figure is claimed, neither is any timeline given for market release. That sounds like a conservative approach, and that is what I like. Some design aspects are strange to me, and I wonder if they confirm a relation to motorbike engines, or not:

    -) 4 valves per cylinder, with 2 overhead cams for each cylinder
    -) each cylinder has its own distribution chain (chain!) and these are on each side of the cylinders: one "before", one "behind"
    -) each cylinder has two spark plugs, one in the exact centre, the other tucked away at the side - which makes it look like an afterthought

    A few figures/facts from the brochure:
    twin cylinder 90 degrees 4 stroke
    1223 ccm total displacement
    one oil pump "sucking" and two "blowing" - actually three sections on a single pump body
    cartridge oil filter plus a "net" ("mesh"?) oil filter
    integrated reduction gear 1 : 2,95
    friction clutch (under reserve of translation: originally it reads "ruota libera con frizione")
    three-phase alternator 435 watt (but no indication of voltage, 12V= seems likely)

    One thing is unclear to me, that's the fuel system: one picture mentions "iniettori" which I would translate as "injectors" but elsewhere there is mention of a "secondary circuit" with a carburettor.
     
  5. Jul 22, 2014 #25

    Jan Olieslagers

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    Another thing that's unclear as yet: what options are there for attaching auxiliary power clients, i.e. vacuum pump (for gyroscopic instruments), second alternator (to be IFR compliant), hydraulic prop governor, ... ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
  6. Jul 22, 2014 #26

    bmcj

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    Are we still talking about 120HP at 176 lbs? That sounds remarkably close to the new D-Motor LF39 (six cylinder).


    Han, if you ever get the chance, I'd be interested in seeing you travel to the D-Motor plant in Deerlijk, Belgium (about 110 km from your hometown) and report on your impressions.

    Bruce :)
     
  7. Jul 22, 2014 #27

    JamesG

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    Um... no. The Suzuki 650 and 1000cc v-twins were designed for a family of bikes to compete with Ducati, hence the same basic engine architecture for the SV-650, TL-1000R/S. Later used with EFI for later marks of the SV and the DLs. I doubt it was ever conceived of by the company as having aircraft application.
     
  8. Jul 22, 2014 #28

    Xanadrone

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    All the actual Moto Morini engines are V-twins with an 87 degrees angle between the cylinders.

    I've tested one of them (the Scrambler) in june 2009 and they are extremely torquey from low revs, with almost no vibes - although the motorcycle itself had some weird habits with those motocross-style tyres.
    The mileage was not so great (over 7 l/100 km in normal use, also nearby 30 mpg I guess) - a comparable Beemer Boxer is 20% less thirsty and the Rotax-designed BMW parralel-twins are incredibly economical - but, all in all, I think it would make a good starting base for an aero-conversion.
     
  9. Jul 22, 2014 #29

    Sockmonkey

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    Yeah, that's what gives Harleys that buh-thoom buh-thoom buh-thoom sound. That noise is like a religion for some Harley riders.

    IIRC when auto manufacturers came out with the inline-5 they found it had the same perfectly balanced operation as an inline-6 but was only slightly heavier than an inline-4 because the crank didn't need to be nearly as heavy as a 6 needs.

    I love the radial Caminez engine, but I'm not sure if they ever really solved the issue of wear on the cam lobes.
     
  10. Jul 23, 2014 #30

    JamesG

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    Potato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato PotatoPotato Potato crunch!
    :nervous:
     
  11. Jul 23, 2014 #31

    cheapracer

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    Yeah, nah, not close to being true.
     
  12. Jul 23, 2014 #32

    bmcj

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    That engine sounds somewhat starchy. ;)
     
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  13. Aug 10, 2014 #33

    kangus

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  14. Aug 10, 2014 #34

    cheapracer

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    There is a thread on it here somewhere.

    When these things come across your path that seem to good to be true, it's because they really are too good to be true (specific to aircraft).
     
  15. Aug 10, 2014 #35

    autoreply

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    What's the running weight with everything installed? Anything below 250 lbs and I'm sold (that's Powertec V8 territory)
     
  16. Aug 20, 2014 #36

    kangus

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    [TD="class: postbody vtop"]California company reinvents the rotary engine | Fox News 71% less mass - meaning a 1 liter engine would only weigh 25 pounds Reduced RPM - 1750 rpm for the same power as 3500 rpm - prop speed perfect 60% increase in torque - prop perfect, planes fly on torque not hp. Simplified serviceability by 80% - 13 moving parts! Honda: L13B 98hp/88ft-lb @ 6000rpm engine weight ~ 135 pounds 1.5 liter engine 6 inches wide by 12 inches in diameter: 39.2 pounds, 1750 RPM, 140 Ft-Lb torque @100 hp. This would be the ideal aircraft engine: we are currently flying with engines designed in the 1930's due in part to simplicity, the KISS method for single engine private aircraft is a perfect fit for this engine unless Bombardier gets a hold of it, then the price goes to $40K. Even if it only gets the same mileage as a normal gas engine the size and weight and RPM issues make it a perfect aircraft engine. I wonder how/if the engine would handle a prop? [/TD]
    DK-Engine-on-Bench.jpg
     
  17. Aug 20, 2014 #37

    mcrae0104

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    Particularly the ones that exist in space, but not time. :)
     
  18. Aug 20, 2014 #38

    Brian Clayton

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    I keep seeing this engine pop up, and while I have not seen the specs..... I would guess its a 8,000 rpm+ engine with 40psi+ of boost. Now I am not a engineer, but longevity aside....a PRSU might be a little troublesome. Not to mention a 400hp engine would burn through fuel like nobodies business.
     
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  19. Aug 20, 2014 #39

    akwrencher

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    140lb*ft of torque at 1750 rpm is only 46.6 hp. Airplanes do not fly on torque. They fly on thrust produced by the prop, which is a product of work performed by the engine, which is what hp is. HP and Torque are just opposite sides of a math equation, really. Torque times rpm divided by 5252 = HP. Can't have one without the other.

    Cute little engine though. Wonder how well it will hold up, assuming it ever goes into production.
     
  20. Aug 20, 2014 #40

    mcrae0104

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    Power is work performed over a period of time (which I'm sure is what you meant); hence the wisecrack above. But we all know they don't fly on torque or power or thrust--it's money that keeps them aloft, right? I mean, you hear all this stuff about circulation theory and lift... OK, sorry to drag us off topic--back to the engines.
     
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