New kind of wood fiber invention

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by 4trade, Oct 3, 2012.

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  1. Oct 3, 2012 #1

    4trade

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  2. Oct 3, 2012 #2

    lurker

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    wood - the original carbon fiber.
     
  3. Oct 3, 2012 #3

    bmcj

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    Wow! Sounds promising.
     
  4. Oct 3, 2012 #4

    Aircar

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    I posted a link to this some weeks ago under emerging technology -- the main problem is still moisture sensitivity apparently . --I'd like to know if there are any health considerations with such a nano material as well ; wood is a natural material but there are a lot of well known bad respiratory effects of certain woods and even natural insecticides and resins with bad side effects . Asbestos is also natural (along with Cobra venom, Hemlock and Arsenic ) but quite deadly --not saying there is anything about this material that is known to be bad but being 'healthily sceptical' at this stage.
     
  5. Oct 3, 2012 #5

    DangerZone

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    Good point, these new wood fiber particles are even smaller than wood and working with them would present quite a challenge for providing safety to workers.

    On the other hand, wouldn't the problem of moisture be solved once these wood fibers get soaked with epoxy and resin? What would be the weight distribution ratio of these wooden nanofibers and epoxy/resin?
     
  6. Oct 3, 2012 #6

    Dan Thomas

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  7. Oct 4, 2012 #7

    Vigilant1

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    Thanks. That's a fairly restrained recap of the apparent risks of nanoparticles. These things don't appear in nature and our normal defenses appear to not be very effective at preventing their entry into the body. Once inside, some have shown the capacity to breach other barriers (blood/brain, capillary walls, cell membranes, etc). Fairly scary stuff. I'm not panicky, but the rush to include nano-whatevers in a growing list of consumer products reminds me of the first years after radioactivity was discovered and the desire to incorporate wondrous, safe radium in consumer items.
     
  8. Oct 4, 2012 #8
    Radium Cures - museumofquackery.com

    I've read somewhere that a few people actually survived the "cure", and scientists have tried to investigate to understand the reason of this rare tolerance to radioactivity.
     
  9. Oct 10, 2012 #9

    DangerZone

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    One potential of nanocellulose is also in the construction of electric motors for airplanes to make them lighter. When the technology evolves then 100kW electric motors could become as light as 10kg if the cores are made of nanocellulose and wires of graphene/graphone. If I am not mistaken Alan Cocconi's DHARMA electric motor in the Sunseeker was 0.8 kg heavy and 5kW continuous power, made entirely of composites without metals.

    Are moisture, safety and temperature ranges the only obstacles in developing this material or are there others?
     
  10. Oct 10, 2012 #10

    Jan Carlsson

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    An 100kW motor weight today ~20 kg so over all, there is not much gain if you look at the whole aircraft, if we want 2 hours of electric power that is, say, cruise at 60kW there is about 666,666 kg of batterys, maybe wooden batterys will help? :)
     
  11. Oct 10, 2012 #11

    DangerZone

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    Oh, you mean coupling two Emrax 50kW motors to get the 100kW power..? In that case you'd have that as a temporary 10 second burst but not continuous usage, these motors are 30kW continuous each. And with a 80kg A123/Kokam/whatever battery pack you'd still have at least half an hour of flying once you get in the air. So yes, the weight of batteries is still a problem but I guess that might be solved someday in the near future.

    The thing is that for continuous flight you need only some 5kW so with a 10kWh battery pack you are theoretically able to do some 2 hours of flying and at least one with rational usage of power. That is why the French electric Cri Cri that breached the world record for sustained electric flight at 284km/h has an autonomy of about half an hour of flying without getting too low on battery power.
     
  12. Oct 10, 2012 #12

    Jan Carlsson

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    No I don't mean Emrax, there are electric motor companys all over the world.
     
  13. Oct 10, 2012 #13

    DangerZone

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    True. I just had the impression we were talking about electric motors in aviation...
     
  14. Oct 10, 2012 #14

    bmcj

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    I don't think the motors are the problem. Now, if you could just make the batteries out of nanocellulose materials...
     
  15. Oct 10, 2012 #15

    DangerZone

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    I've read about the future usage of graphene and graphone for some electronic components in microchips so I guess the era of nanochips is yet to come. Since graphone has less resistance than both copper and silver it is just a question of time when they'll start using this material for electric motors. But the batteries still remain the problem, they lag behind. Even though some of the lithium ion batteries seem ok for flight their capacity is nowhere near those of ICE counterparts. That is why most electric vehicle producers make a battery pack that is enough for some 200km and if you wanna drive/ride/fly further you just throw in a range extender and continue with a gasoline electric generator.

    Now when it comes to nanocellulose it seems to be out of reach to us mortals, we're happy when we can afford to work with carbon and/or kevlar. Nanocellulose might be something only large companies will be dealing with unless the Chinese find a new and cheaper way of producing the **** thing, and I really doubt that. They couldn't manage to produce cheaper carbon fibers than in EU or US so it seems nanocellulose will still be only our dream in the next few years. Just like high power electric airplanes...
     

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