Murphy Yukon or Alternative

Discussion in 'General Experimental Aviation Questions' started by johwiltb, Mar 13, 2019.

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  1. Mar 14, 2019 #21

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    Nope, you're not wrong, that is the exact correct answer.

    You might be able to take the O-360 out of the Cherokee and sell the airframe to pay for the cost of materials or a kit to build your "dream plane", or something closer to what you want. If you know and trust the O-360, then keep it and use it in the CH-801 or Bearthawk or whatever.

    You can buy an old Tri-Pacer and convert it to a Bushmaster (stretched fuselage) and make a really capable back-country bushwhacker out of it.

    One of our HBA members, Toobuilder, has a really nice experimental Tri-Pacer project for sale cheap cheap CHEAP, that would be perfect for your O-360. It's a taildragger already, and he put a low-drag landing gear from a Cessna 170 or L-19 on it, so it has a very good chance of making 125-140 MPH with a strong O-360. I have seen this project, it is kept high and dry in a hangar in a very dry sesert climate. You could literally sell just the wings off of your Cherokee and be able to buy his complete airframe project. And be 75% done at that starting point.

    If I were you I'd send him a PM and ask for photos and info on that project. Four full size people and some baggage will fit in that airplane I believe.
     
  2. Mar 15, 2019 #22

    johwiltb

    johwiltb

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    I checked out that project, and it definitely looks awesome! If I had skills in aircraft engineering and a better understanding of load and stress points, and maybe a bit more experience, I'd definitely be really interested in that. My one hesitation is my lack of experience. One of the reasons I'm looking at a kit is the small hand-holding I'd get while I work through the learning process. Welding is one skillset I don't really have, and I saw that Toobuilder mentioned in some followup a need for welding with the frame, which is way out of my comfort level. Maybe after I get a few builds under my belt I'd feel more comfortable with that.
     
  3. Mar 15, 2019 #23

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    OK, then based on the facts as I see and understand them, my recommendation is the 801. Part of that is because I am not very familiar with the Murphy aircraft, but I do know they are highly regarded and apparently fly well. I have just not been around them personally, which doesn't mean anything.

    From a personal standpoint, and airplanes I have been around a little, I do know for certain that the 801 or 750SD will be easy to build with lots of hand-holding available, and these aircraft will get you safely out into the off-road flying world.

    If your mission requires 130 knots cruise speed and off-road capability for 4 full size people and baggage, it is going to be very very hard to beat the 1956-1959 Cessna 182. That's not an E-AB of course, but if meeting your mission is more important than the other factors, that old straight-tail 182 is, and should be, the benchmark that you compare everything else to.

    I would look at some of the youtube videos from the Homebuilt Help company in Canada, get a small 10 minute taste of their builder help videos for the 750. Then if the videos seem to make sense and resonate with you, then get one of their DVD's and see the whole video. I believe you will agree that their videos are about as much hand-holding as you can get. More importantly their videos will give you a very good idea of how the Zenith airplanes go together, what it would "feel like" to build one, etc.

    The 801 or 750 Super Duty would be a direct match for the engine you already own.
     
  4. Mar 22, 2019 #24

    E28POWERM20

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    The Wag 2+2 I've heard is like a very wide Super Cub, 37" wide at the shoulders, 30" wide at the floor. Probably not recommended for 4 people.

    I've been very interested in building a Bede BD-4, for my family of 3. It'll ll do 120-130knots on 150hp, good range too. 140 knots should be easy with 180hp. It's definitely not a STOL plane, but comparable to the Cherokee, probably better with extended wings and vortex generators. The BD-4C is the latest version and quite roomy, 46" wide in the front seats, 2 adults are pretty comfortable in the rear seats.
     
  5. Mar 22, 2019 #25

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    Make sure you go sit in a PA-14 or Wag-Aero 2+2 before you get too interested in it. I have only one ride in a PA-14 in Alaska, and I can tell you for certain it is very small for 2 people in the front seats. ANYONE interested in this type of aircraft would be much better off with a PA-20/22 derivative, using the "Bushmaster" or "Provider" or "Javelin" modifications.
     
    BJC likes this.
  6. Mar 22, 2019 #26

    E28POWERM20

    E28POWERM20

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    Are there any non-STOL focused PA-20/22 based homebuilts out there? I'd love to build a slightly stretched PA-20 based plane with a decent cruise, that's not designed to land in 200ft.
     
  7. Mar 22, 2019 #27

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    YES, our fellow HBA member Toobuilder has exactly that fo sale. At an incredible price BTW. It is a slightly modified PA-22 project, designed for higher cruise speed and good comfort... and then arriving in style at your destination. If this is the type of thing you are looking for, I would very strongly urge you to look at it.
     
  8. Mar 22, 2019 #28

    E28POWERM20

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    Yes, I strongly considered that project, I even talked to him on the phone about it. But I decided it wasn't the project for me. I was thinking in general if there were any plans that modified/updated the factory plans for more performance, cabin space, heavier engines, etc.
     
  9. Mar 28, 2019 #29

    pittsdriver

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    John, I can't figure out how to send a PM so I'll just post. I'm a highly experienced builder ( Four Supercubs, two RV7s. Zenith 750 and major parts of several other homebuilts plus restored two Nanchang CJ6s, a SNJ and three Tbm Avengers. I fly a Murphy Moose with the M-14P and helped build it. Also there are two Bearhawk Patrols and a 4 place Bearhawk being built here and I'm the tech advisor. Anyway if you would like to call me my # is 208-420-0041 and I'm in southern Idaho. Don
     
  10. Mar 29, 2019 #30

    johwiltb

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    Hey I really appreciate it! I am still a bit of a ways off from actually starting, but it'd be great to have a contact to reach out to. Thanks again!
     
  11. Mar 29, 2019 #31

    pittsdriver

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    I can give you an accurate idea of costs and also how much time it will take to build. I can tell you upfront that a Bearhawk or Murphy Tundra done right with 390 or 540 with a Skyview or Garmin panel will cost as much as you can find a Cessna 180 would be. Remember you will be hauling your wife and kids around so don't scimp on anything. Take a little longer if you have to to buy the right stuff. Personally I will never own another certified airplane as the maintenance will eat you up over the years. Plus flynig an airplane you built is highly satisfying.
     
  12. Mar 29, 2019 #32

    blane.c

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    I vote Bearhawk.
     
  13. Mar 29, 2019 #33

    BJC

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  14. Mar 30, 2019 #34

    rv7charlie

    rv7charlie

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    FWIW, there may be some 'expectation management' in order. If the goal is 4 adult size people, camping gear, and 900 mile range at 150 mph, the kit is only available from Unobtainium Inc. None of the planes mentioned except the Moose will even come close, with the Bearhawk being mentioned in the same conversation. The calculations are pretty simple; look up the typical empty weight of a/c 'X', add ~700 lbs for people, add: 100 lbs for baggage & gear, add: 14 (gallons per hour) * 6 (lbs per gallon) * 7 (6 hrs +1 hour reserve) for fuel weight, and compare to the recommended gross weight of that a/c.

    You *might* be able to do it in a Cessna 210 (rated as '6 seats'), flying high at minimum economy cruise. But it isn't exactly a bush plane.
    Real world ex: the 182 is a great plane for its mission, but from personal experience, 3 guys, gear for a week at OSH, and full fuel puts you over gross, at or behind the rear CG, and a little better than 1/3 the desired range.

    Charlie
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019

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